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Message: <blockquote data-quote="theNater" data-source="post: 4344398" data-attributes="member: 62560">I don't think that was me, but it has been a long thread.  Who knows? Not exactly.  What I'm saying here is that 4th edition feats have less of an effect on character power than 3rd edition feats.  The feats are weaker, but overall, characters tend to be more powerful(in combat within their role). Comparing feat systems is entirely appropriate.  When you compare systems, it turns out that  4th edition's feat system provides more feats, but each feat is weaker.  Thus comparing one feat from 4th edition to one feat from 3rd edition is generally unfavorable to the 4th edition feat.Fighters do get fewer feats in 4th edition than they did in 3rd edition, but they make up that difference by getting powers. Monsters(which in 4th edition are defined as "anything the party fights") have a fairly limited number of healing surges.  Because healing potions consume healing surges, an opponent will not get to drink an endless supply of potions.  Also, the party's damage in a single round is almost always going to be significantly more than the amount of healing a potion provides.If the foe drinking a healing potion is part of the encounter design, then the potion wasn't planned as treasure anyway, so you're not missing out on anything.  If your DM is in the habit of consuming your treasure, that's something the table should discuss. Yup, had a 3eism in my brain.  Good catch. I didn't count Weapon Focus as part of the extra cost for getting the happy medium because Bob had it in all three setups.  I did make him level 4 so that he'd have 3 feats, however. When I say better attacks, I don't mean attacks with a slightly better chance to hit, I mean things like Warrior's Challenge(fighter 17), which lets you do triple damage to a single target, push him 2 squares, and mark all nearby enemies.  Things like Devastation's Wake(fighter 19), which permits you to do triple damage to each adjacent enemy and take a bonus attack(for normal damage) on each enemy who is adjacent to the fighter at any time during their turn. Yes, in 4th edition, instead of building two staircases, Sam will build a stairwell connecting multiple floors, or simultaneously build a stairwell in each of the buildings he's working on, or build a handicapped-accessible staircase, or some other such option.  Given that in 3rd edition he'd be building 4 staircases at level 20, and the last few would be rush jobs that might not quite work out, I think he's come out ahead. Yes, Linguist is not a high-priority feat for a basher.  Those who can get a bonus to diplomacy checks in skill challenges by speaking in the other person's native tongue are interested in it, though. Indeed they did, and indeed they still will.  The at-will powers are your low-power frequent use options, and they never go away.  However, when you've got Prismatic Burst(wizard 13), do you really need Ray of Enfeeblement(wizard 1)? Sunder is moderately achievable, but look at disarm.  If you get damaged by the opportunity attack, you fail.  If the disarmer and the target each have a 50% chance to succeed on attack rolls, then a character attempting a disarm without the feat has a 25% chance of succeeding.  I don't count that as sufficiently likely, and if the character is fighting serious monsters, that opportunity attack may well have a better than 50% chance of hitting. Note that Turn Undead is self-improving in 4th edition.  It never becomes usable more than once per encounter, but it hits larger areas and increases its damage as the cleric levels.  You no longer need feats to do those things. Rogue still is all those things in addition to being a damage dealer.  He gets training in Stealth and Thievery for free, and gets to pick four more skills from a list that includes Perception and Dungeoneering. Cool.  I'm interested in knowing what you end up with.  If you do go with the fighter/wizard, you may want to look at the Expanded Spellbook feat.  It doesn't require that you have the Spellbook class feature, so you can use it to put another wizard spell into your repertoire. Yeah, we can look at how some of those things work in various lights.  I would like to point out that in a dungeon or a town, getting next to a wall isn't difficult.  If you do a lot of your adventuring in wild places, you may want to ask your DM if you can include trees, cliffs, large boulders, and other such things as walls.  Or if you've got a wizard in the group, he can make some walls for you to put your back to. Right.  Those were the balance effects in 3rd edition.  4th edition uses different tools to balance things up, but they are both working to discourage wizards from getting up close and personal with the enemy.That's exactly right.  That's what multiclassing is for, to make the character better at certain activities than he would be otherwise.There's a limit to what you can do with abilities from a single class.  Fighters, for example, have no powers that can affect a target more than four squares away.  They also have few powers that provide impressive mobility.  Multiclassing gives them the opportunity to pick up ranged options or huge mobility.A fighter/wizard facing enemies 10 squares away can toss a Fireball(wizard 5) into their midst.  Or he can Expeditious Retreat(wizard 2) right into the middle of them, then make them Come and Get It(fighter 7).  A single classed fighter is limited to either charging or using a ranged basic attack.</blockquote>

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