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Message: <blockquote data-quote="meien" data-source="post: 6188709" data-attributes="member: 6690838">To me after you know the basics of something people (or at least me) generally try new things within the same general frame work to see if they work better/worse/give new results.  So a wizard or sorcerer who understands the basic principles of magic can do some modifications/experiments and modify and create new spells using basic principles.  If you know the basics eventually over time (ie the experience it takes to level up in gaming terms) you can practice them and get better at them.  I just don't like gaining unrelated abilities out of the blue.  It's not hard to tell the DM "hey in my off time I'm working towards being a (class) by practicing during down time with whatever you make available" and talking about it for a minute.  A lot of times between the 2 of you talking you can actually get additional story hooks or roleplay or come up with new things that can fit what you want even better.Not sure how other people's games are but usually my players will tell me during down time that they are going to do something related to their specialty.  Or after their initial description just say they're doing the usual and only speak up if they want to do something different.  They go to a temple and seek guidance from the other members, or go to the library and research some form of monsters or spells, or they go to the local militia/constabulary and either use their practice area or volunteer to train with them learning more and teaching what they know.  So they tell me at least once that they are using at least some level of that real world model of advancing themselves that you're talking about.Also I'm not opposed to throwing books into my game sessions that  "reveal" studies or whatever that my players can use to boost their knowledge  through study.  This works for magic users who find out some revelation about spells or for martial types with pictures and instructions on particular moves.  I've also thrown in books that have studies of different species that if studied for a while give boosts to different knowledge checks or similar items.  So they can go beyond just what they get from leveling if they actually participate in the roleplaying aspect of the game.I've had a player who was playing a sorcerer defeat a foe and got a war hammer out of it.  He got in a bad spot for a minute when the bad guy got up on him and he decided I'm going to learn to use weapons better so guys can't just get in my face.  So he talked to the fighter and came to an agreement with him for training.  He told me they would spend 1 hour a night while on the road before sleeping just practicing that.  When they were in town they went to the garrison and paid a silver or 2 for use of their practice area for the several days they were going to be in town and went and practiced.  When he leveled I gave him proficiency war hammer for free.I understand that some people just see the classes as random stats and don't want to do all that.  We have a player in our group that does very little roleplay and focuses mostly on the stats and there's nothing wrong with that.  The OP said what he did and asked what we do.  I ask for some level of roleplay.  It doesn't have to be grand theater just enough to show you're engaged.  The OP didn't handle the situation exactly the way I personally would have but I don't see anything wrong with him wanting extra roleplaying in his game either.  Like I said in the first post he should have found a way for the guy to be a barbarian.  It could have been as simple as looking at the fighter and saying "hey does your character mind training him in some basic combat abilities and weapon use? You will cool.  Hey sorcerer during down time you're working with the fighter on basic combat stuff but you're not going to reach his level of precision that quick so you end up as a barbarian."  That allows them to play off of each other during game play, gives reasoning for what's happening and gives the player what he wants for barely more brain power than just having him write barbarian on his sheet when they level.  To me that's a better way of getting things done instead of just having new things pop up just because.</blockquote>

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