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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sundragon2012" data-source="post: 2616697" data-attributes="member: 7624">Different situation entirely, a barbarian is a cultural assumption that cannot IMO be trained believably. You either are a barbarian or you aren't based on the culture in which you were raised. However, the berserker style of fighting could theoretically be taught.Too simplistic an argument. If a child is a street urchin, his training is his life. He is a rogue to survive. A character, who is no child, who has never had to steal to survive would of course need to learn the fine art of pick pocketing and stealth. You would need to learn a great deal to be a rogue. The skill sets do not come naturally in many cases. The skill set of fighter include much more than swinging a sword around, a farm hand can do that. One has to learn how to effectively use a shield. One has to learn fighting styles. The Society for creative anachronism can show one a lot about what it takes to be a real warrior. Does this mean that a farm boy cannot become a fighter without training.....maybe if he survives his first battles through sheer luck. However such a fighter would not know how to fight armored, wouldn't know how to use a shield, wouldn't know a great deal of anything one assumes a fighter would know. It would seem that this learning takes place before the character even becomes first level. A feral human would not necessarily become a berserking/raging barbarian and would probably need a little bit of barbarian, ranger, and fighter to recreate the type of character involved. A DM could create a feral hunter class to more effectively simulate such a character.Another unusual situation that is not the norm. Clerics are called perhaps but then they are trained in ritual, prayer, meditation, spellcraft, theology, metaphysics, etc. There is much, much more than simply praying to a god to be a cleric. The fact is that such a character could become a cleric without training, or a paladin or whatever, but these would seem to be more rare than those with formal training unless the classes themselves are rare.Some kind? Well martial arts certainly requires some intense training and if mages in the game have to be half as well informed as earthly members of occult orders ie. The Golden Dawn, Thelema, Aurum Solis, etc. (read some studies on esoteric Qabala sometime to see what esoteric training would be like) then they are certainly apprentices for years before becoming real wizards.IMO the idea that classes can be picked up with a minimum to no training at all must mean that in these settings there are no apprentice mages, acolyte clerics, novice martial artists who are older than adolecents or perhaps only the inept need to apprentice at anything at all.Also, there is a great gulf between the character who is born with something special ( a sorceror), someone whose culture is the source of his class (barbarian), someone who must learn or die (the street urchin rogue) and the PC adventurer who is often not in these situations and has to find another believable way to learn what these types of people know naturally. PCs can discover their sorcerous nature so that is a different circumstance.Chris</blockquote>

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