Multilevel partys

[marli]

Ive been trying to figure out a house rull to allow partys of varying level to adventure together.

the problem is if you are 4 or more levels below the aveage, EVERYTHING can hit you and you cant hit ANYTHING.

so I was thinking about removing the level restriction on items and trying a rent-gear option....

the is a brainstorm BTW

so for every 2 levels it +1 to AC and Hit and about +1 per 4 levels for other odds and ends?
would that give you a character that could survuve combat?
1st in a party of 5ths? 4th in a part of 13ths?

meh im tired....just throwing about some ideas.
(this idea came about because of a near party wipe leving one 5th level character and we needed to make a new party)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, DMG2 mentions giving lower level PCs something like a compensating inherent bonus. Overall the game doesn't handle it that well. Of course this is not really new to 4e. In the old AD&D days the trick was for the lower level guy to basically hide out at the back of the party until he caught up. This should basically still work, though the amount of play time required may be prohibitive.

 

[El Coro]

Maybe something like City of Heroes sidekick system?

For instance, there's a level 5 that wants to play with four other level 10's:

- Every level has a "sidekick" AC number, determined by the role and armor. Maybe a defender's is a little higher, and a controller's is a little lower. Not as high as the actual level 10s, but enough to stay alive. Perhaps also a boost in HP.

- The sidekick also will get a level-appropriate bonus to damage and attack rolls. Not enough to make them as powerful as the real-level PCs, but close.

- For every new power/feat the sidekick would have been able to pick if he WERE level 10, say it's 2 dailies, 2 encounters, and 2 feats, he gets to pick half that amount, though they can be from the levels 5 - 10, as if he had chosen them at that level. So 1 daily, 1 encounter, and 1 feat.

So you end up with a character that isn't quite as resilient or powerful, and doesn't have as many abilities, but can still hit enemies and withstand more than a couple of hits until they get enough XP to close the gap.

Just an idea - haven't thought it out much.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Give the lower level character a bonus to to-hit/ac/ref/fort/will equal to:
((Highest level - Lowest level) / 2).

You might want to give the character bonus hp as if they were of Highest level.

I wouldn't let the lower level character get any more feats/powers.

Personally I believe I would only go with my first suggestion and not grant HP. The lower level character will be useful, but squishy. 4e characters have ok hp, so it shouldn't be that dangerous if the player is a bit careful.

 

[Agamemmnon]

Why is there a lower level character to begin with? All the player characters should be the same level and gain xp at the same rate. XP is a pacing mechanic, or at the most a group reward.

 

[Zaran]

Why is there a lower level character to begin with? All the player characters should be the same level and gain xp at the same rate. XP is a pacing mechanic, or at the most a group reward.

Maybe the low level is out of someones shoebox and they don't want to level them up but still want to play. Some people hate to be power leveled up. It might be a last minute thing as well. I would do the bonus to defense and attack with no new feats or powers.

The same can be done the other way with higher level characters joining a low level group. knock off a half level of modifiers but let them keep feats, hp and powers.

 

[Goonalan]

Why is there a lower level character to begin with? All the player characters should be the same level and gain xp at the same rate. XP is a pacing mechanic, or at the most a group reward.

I have this problem with my main group of adventurers, one of them got Petrified and spent the rest of the scenario (50%?) as a statue being carried around (or hidden away) by the others.

In game we were good with this, out of game the player took some time off from the campaign and came back refreshed- win, win except we talked about it for an age and we decided the player should not get the same XP- he's two levels down on the rest of the PCs. The guy that plays him actually insisted this be the case, he likes the idea- good motivator.

And in game... meh, little or no real effect, the players are Level 12-14 at the moment, the Level 12 PC has some of the best Defences and was never a big hitter- he's the group Leader.

I keep thinking I'll find a way to Level him up- some Solo quest but...

Seems to be doing okay.

I DM another group (all Dwarves) that have taken some casualties along the way- the five players were left with seven Dwarf (LOL) PCs (after a TPK was avoided by having some of the players captured with a second group despatched to rescue them). They also seem to have few problems- a typical session would see adventurers of Level 2, 3 and 4 battling it out- they've never mentioned any problems, and I've never noticed any of them struggle. They love playing the Dwarves anyway, they're roleplaying clowns with this bunch...

Cheers PDR

 

[the Jester]

Why is there a lower level character to begin with? All the player characters should be the same level and gain xp at the same rate. XP is a pacing mechanic, or at the most a group reward.

That's your opinion, and perhaps your group's playstyle, but it's certainly not The Way It Must Be.

If a player misses a session, some groups still give him xp, but many do not. If the party splits up, the two halves might well earn different xp totals. And there are a million other different scenarios for how the party might end up with different levels in it.

If the level gap is too large, it is very hard to challenge all the pcs appropriately. However, you can try to use groups of enemies that have a similar level width amongst them. For instance, if your party is 3 guys at 7th level, one at 10th and one at 4th, you might want to use an encounter with 3 level 7 monsters, 2 level 5 monsters and a level 8 elite or something.

What I do in my campaign is try to "close the gap" for the lower level pcs a bit quicker than it might otherwise. My system is very simple and easy, and it makes a surprising amount of difference rather quickly. I call it "Catch-Up XP".

The Jester's Catch-Up XP System

At the start of each game session, each pc that is lower than the top level in the party gains catch-up xp equal to that earned for defeating a monster of a level equal to that of the highest-level pc. (In other words, in my hypothetical "3 x 7th level, 1 x 10th level and 1 x 4th level" party, each pc except the 10th level guy would get xp as if she had slain a 10th level monster at the start of the game.)

Each time there is a new highest-level member of the party, each pc of lower level earns catch-up xp again.

Simple and easy, and it works well without over-accelerating the pace of advancement.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Remember, XP is a geometric progression where each level requires about 1.3x more XP than the previous level. If a party of 5 characters gets 50k XP (10k per PC) and one is 7th level and another is 10th level the 7th level PC will advance 3 levels, the 10th level PC will advance a bit under 2 levels, so you'll now have one guy at 10th and one guy at 11th going on 12th. By mid-paragon that 10k XP difference won't even amount to a full level, one character will advance a bit sooner is all. Even a minor amount of bonus XP to the lower level guy will quickly close that gap if you prefer.

The curve does flatten out a decent amount in epic, but even then lower level PCs will tend to catch up, albeit more slowly. At really low levels it is even steeper and character levels will converge pretty fast in low heroic. At the extreme a level 1 PC be almost 6th level in the same XP a 10th level guy will hit 11th. They won't fully equalize until around 20th level, but they'll be close enough. You can always run a little side quest for the PCs that are behind too.

 

[the Jester]

While letting it take care of itself will happen, it happens slowly, and ime the players have more fun if they aren't the low-level guy in the group. I think it's worth using some kind of catchup mechanism, but YMMV.