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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 2637825" data-attributes="member: 3146">OK then, enlighten us. What exactly is it that the paladin is supposed to do?My thought is that the paladin is supposed to be good at fighting evil. A fighter is not designed to do that better than the paladin. The paladin is designed to do that better than the fighter. A fighter's schtick is to be able to fight anyone any time anywhere and in any way and still be effective. Fighting demons. They go down. Eladrin in the way? They go down too. Inevitables coming after him? Bring 'em on. There's plenty to go around. A paladin, on the other hand, is specialized for fighting evil. Mincing demons is his breakfast but if Inevitables or Eladrin are what's coming for him, he's at a definite disadvantage.Now, let's imagine a paladin who's not as good at fighting evil as a fighter is. What is it about his holy blessings that make him worse at fulfilling his goal in life than someone who doesn't have those blessings?But, we could go back and forth all day about what classes are supposed to be. Let's propose two different tests for MAD--one for high powered games and one for low powered games.Here's the high powered game question: how many 18s will the character benefit from? Or, is the character noticably better in his various roles if he has 18/18/18/18/18/18 than if he has 18/18/18/10/10/10? Characters who benefit from additional high scores have MAD. Let's try applying this. For the barbarian and wizard, the answer is "not really." A wizard can have an 18 strength and an 18 charisma and an 18 wisdom without being noticably more effective or able than a wizard with 10 in each of those stats. A paladin? Well, he's a lot better off with the 18 strength, con, wisdom, and charisma. The 18 dex will help a lot too (though he has ways to make up for a low dex). TThe low powered test is here: Given a limited point buy, how will a serious min-maxer allocate his stats to create a power-gamed character? If 28 point buy games feature a lot of power gamed 18, 14, 14, 8, 8 , 8 characters the class does not have MAD. If, OTOH, the more frequent builds are 15, 14, 14, 14, 10, 8 or similarly balanced builds, it is likely that the class does have MAD.Applying this test yields the same results. 18, 14, 14, 8, 8, 8 builds are common for power-gamed barbarian characters and aren't unheard of for power-gamed wizards. Therefore, neither class has MAD. OTOH, it is rare for a power-gamed monk or paladin to have such unbalanced stats. Power gamers tend to spread those points out a bit more to eek more out of their various abilities. Therefore, both classes have MAD.Maybe in some other world. I would say that the actual impact of mechanics is that they determine what your character can actually do in the game. It's all well and good to have the concept "my character is a great archer" but if your BAB is +1, you're not proficient in bows, your dex is 8 and your strength 10 and you don't have any archery feats, your character is not a great archer. He's a pathetic archer who is under the demented delusion that he's a skilled archer. On the other hand, a character with a base attack of +19, every archery feat in the book (and some from non-core sources), a strength of 22 and a dex of 30 can lay claim to the accolades of a master marksman. He really can hit an falling apple five times before it hits the ground and do it at a range of three hundred yards.Some of that is dependent upon the style of play and player/DM expectations. But some of it is not. I don't think there are any reasonable player/DM expectations that could make the first character a skilled archer. Nor are there any reasonable sets of player/DM expectations that will make a 10/10/10/10/10/14 paladin who can't take a by the book bugbear in a fair fight into a paragon of holy martial prowess. He can be holy all he wants but martial prowess is going to elude him as long as he's around a fighter with 14/10/10/10/10/10 stats who will beat him ten ways till Sunday, put him in a dress and call him Shirley.</blockquote>

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