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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Multiple attacks, immediate reactions, and conditions
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<blockquote data-quote="Hypersmurf" data-source="post: 4562039" data-attributes="member: 1656"><p>There's a lot of room for confusion in here, I think.</p><p></p><p>My understanding is that the Target entry is determined before the Attack entry begins. So Twin Strike is "One or two creatures" - you have to decide if you're attacking one or two creatures before you start rolling, and which creature(s) that is.</p><p></p><p>If you select one creature as your target, and one attack kills the opponent, the other attack is wasted; you can't reassign it. Attacks that you can make decisions about contingent upon earlier attacks in the same power are Secondary Attacks, and have Secondary Targets.</p><p></p><p>Also, a power like Thundertusk Boar Strike suggests that the two attacks are simultaneous; if you can make two melee attacks, and each hit pushes the target one square, and the attacks resolve sequentially? Then if the first hits, you won't be able to reach the target with the second. If they resolve simultaneously, there's no problem; roll both dice, and for each one that hits, push the target one square (or more, if both hit).</p><p></p><p>However, then we have PHB p268: <em>For example, if a power lets you attack as an immediate reaction when an attack hits you, your action happens before the monster that hit you can take any other action. If a monster has a power that lets it make two attack rolls against you as a standard action, and the first one hits, you can use an immediate reaction before the next attack roll.</em></p><p></p><p>Which suggests that two attack rolls as part of a single power occur sequentially, not simultaneously. Which makes Thundertusk Boar Strike problematical with two non-reach melee weapons.</p><p></p><p>So for your first question - p268 suggests that you would apply the blind condition after the first attack, and combat advantage would apply for the second. Thundertusk Boar Strike implies the opposite, because "render opponent blind" and "push opponent 1 square" should resolve identically... and if "push opponent 1 square" resolves before the second attack, the second attack is impossible.</p><p></p><p>Question 2: p268 makes it clear that the immediate reaction can occur after the first of the two attacks.</p><p></p><p>Question 3: My understanding is that the answer is D; the immediate reaction has invalidated the remainder of your action.</p><p></p><p>Question 4: I believe it's A, because otherwise, Twin Strike would need to be rewritten with a secondary target.</p><p></p><p>See Cut and Run (Rgr 3) for an example - target one or two creatures, make two attacks, shift X squares after the first or second attack. I believe that you cannot make one attack, then decide who your target for the second attack is. </p><p></p><p>-Hyp.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hypersmurf, post: 4562039, member: 1656"] There's a lot of room for confusion in here, I think. My understanding is that the Target entry is determined before the Attack entry begins. So Twin Strike is "One or two creatures" - you have to decide if you're attacking one or two creatures before you start rolling, and which creature(s) that is. If you select one creature as your target, and one attack kills the opponent, the other attack is wasted; you can't reassign it. Attacks that you can make decisions about contingent upon earlier attacks in the same power are Secondary Attacks, and have Secondary Targets. Also, a power like Thundertusk Boar Strike suggests that the two attacks are simultaneous; if you can make two melee attacks, and each hit pushes the target one square, and the attacks resolve sequentially? Then if the first hits, you won't be able to reach the target with the second. If they resolve simultaneously, there's no problem; roll both dice, and for each one that hits, push the target one square (or more, if both hit). However, then we have PHB p268: [i]For example, if a power lets you attack as an immediate reaction when an attack hits you, your action happens before the monster that hit you can take any other action. If a monster has a power that lets it make two attack rolls against you as a standard action, and the first one hits, you can use an immediate reaction before the next attack roll.[/i] Which suggests that two attack rolls as part of a single power occur sequentially, not simultaneously. Which makes Thundertusk Boar Strike problematical with two non-reach melee weapons. So for your first question - p268 suggests that you would apply the blind condition after the first attack, and combat advantage would apply for the second. Thundertusk Boar Strike implies the opposite, because "render opponent blind" and "push opponent 1 square" should resolve identically... and if "push opponent 1 square" resolves before the second attack, the second attack is impossible. Question 2: p268 makes it clear that the immediate reaction can occur after the first of the two attacks. Question 3: My understanding is that the answer is D; the immediate reaction has invalidated the remainder of your action. Question 4: I believe it's A, because otherwise, Twin Strike would need to be rewritten with a secondary target. See Cut and Run (Rgr 3) for an example - target one or two creatures, make two attacks, shift X squares after the first or second attack. I believe that you cannot make one attack, then decide who your target for the second attack is. -Hyp. [/QUOTE]
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