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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aluvial" data-source="post: 1390038" data-attributes="member: 6862">That's correct.  The shame is that these spells have changed drastically since their inception into the game. I remember being able to charm a creature to fight off it friends or to at least defend the caster.... The new rules are ambiguous enough that a PC could claim that even being charmed was against his nature, and he would get a saving throw against a Domination effect.   I can see a caster saying, "throw yourself on your sword" or "jump off of this cliff" and the charmed guy resisting, even breaking the enchantment, but not even fighting against a former friend....    Well, that might be the ticket there.  When the spell is cast you forget your previous affiliations in appreciation for you new ones...  I'm sure that was how the spells were intended anyway. By way of the example, no one in their right mind would face a pissed red dragon on his own, even for a friend, but a charmed or dominated guy would...  Any other opinions?  Aluvial</blockquote>