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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hopeless" data-source="post: 3816388" data-attributes="member: 36349">Munchkin & Power GamersNow looking back I can recognise a phase where I was  munchkin, you know the bit where characters had all ability scores at 18, but back then I didn't have groups to play with and when i did they either didn't last long because respective parents fell out and I was banend from going round or it was a rare game say Middle Earth when it was first out long before the Jackson movie trilogy.I only really learned to get out of that phase after a club was opened where gamers went to play various games and they even designed their own campaign world which then led to their own system which changed drastically in each edition like one player ran a priest of the god of thieves and was remarkably succesful until they changed the rules to remove a particular powerful spell he had access to.Me i ran a Paladin of that god and chose to make him a sellsword rather than an out and out thief and didn't select lockpicking as it wasn't in my view what my character was about. Then they changed the system so I couldn't remain a paladin of the god of thieves and then my character became his twin brother who was a paladin of the god of well I've forgotten.The only two magical items that character ever possessed turned out to be a ring that shielded him from spiritual damage but the dm didn't bother to mention this after my character was almost slain from that kind of damage (before the changeover ruined it).The other was found by another player whose character was killed so I openly stated I was holding onto it until i could pass it on to his heirs not that the dm ever bothered to let me know who they were but it was later claimed by the paladin of another faith after i shot a villain holding a cleric of my faith hostage only to be told the critical hit from the crossbow had absolutely no effect and the villain promptly did critical damage to his hostage even though there was no way I could have known this as up to this point I had never played with someone who ran it this way.Sorry for going on so long, I actually know someone who is a munchkin and probably will always be so which is why i consider 4e's developers to be promoting it to the same.That same player when playing in my games I don't penalise him I just make sure he doesn't cheat whether due to a lack of understanding of the game but I don't subject him to pointless acts of spite as my former dm did and he admitted it afterwards even though when he played a paladin character he persuaded the dm to let him roll up his money under 1st edition rules so he could start with a suit of full plate and a masterwork greatsword...I suspect thats your munckin and powergamer example for you, however the closest I ever got to optimising came when my cleric was aged 60 years using 2nd edition rules in a 3.0 game and then I only chose to multiclass as I had been curious about sorcerors... needless to say I won't bore you any further but it became evident that my dm doesn't like creative impulses from players he feels threatened by and aren't on his list of preferred players...Didn't help I annoyed him when I pointed out his mistakes but then the others didn't bck me up unless it effected them too, but thats another story entirely...</blockquote>

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