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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 3822908" data-attributes="member: 5038">I'd add it is not always in the build, but in the view of level of starting power/abilities (e.g., if any of the character's ability scores fall below a certain bonus level, the character is worthless and not heroic).I'd seperate the two and change optimizer to meeting a concept rather than purpose and everyone does this to some degree as soon as they make concious decisions regarding where to assign points in a ability scores and skill ranks.  For example, buying half or single ranks in profession (farmer), handle animal, hide, move silent, and survival for your fighter to represent skills he learned growing up on the farm and hunting in his free time despite not being the most efficient spending of skill points is, imo, optimizing to meet the background.  As for min/maxer, I'd change to a form of optomization in which the player must have the character be the best of the best in at least one area. The min/maxer seeks out  every synergy opportunity,  even to the point of ignoring other areas of the character's background and experience, to keep the relevant bonuses to their area of specialty maxed out.  I agree with munchkin as being a cheater</blockquote>