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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack99" data-source="post: 4973273" data-attributes="member: 53135">As mentioned by Coyote6, they were indeed just aspects. IMC Demon lords can't just enter the mortal world, just as gods can't. The Primal Spirits keep them out. Stat-wise, Orcus was a 21 solo, Demogorgon was a 21 solo and Grazz't was a 23 solo. A lot like a powered down version of what is in the books, but still tweaked a lot to provide suitable challenge for my players. Orcus was so-so, Demogorgon really successful and Grazz't was just plain nasty, so overall, I am quite happy with how they turned out.I made them solos, based on player feedback. A few levels earlier, they fought and killed Yeenoghu (more or less straight by the book, ie 20-something elite) and even though it was a close battle, they were a bit disappointed that the aspect of the demon lord fell so easily.Speaking of solos, I have found them to be a bit tricky. First of all, many of them simply do not have the damage output to be a significant threat to a 5 man party. Also, many solos rely on melee attacks to do their thing, which limits them a lot. So solos are probably the type of monster where I make the most changes. Below are the solo-specific changes that I try to incorporate in every solo.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make sure that the solo has a 3-4 attacks as a standard action. Ideally it should have to divide those attacks on several targets within range (4 focused attacks every round on a single fighter in melee might hurt a bit too much), while not being forced to only be able to hit the melee character once if he is alone.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make sure that the solo has a way to get and hurt the casters, even after the fighter has it locked down. That can be any number of tricks, from dazing the fighter (to be used sparingly or it will be a totally unfun fight for the fighter), to teleport as a move/minor, a powerful ranged attack (preferably one that doesn't draw OA's, or the fighter will eat the solo quicker than you can say cookie) or even better, a summon ability (look up Demogorgon if you do not know what I am talking about). </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I also like to give the solos a boost when they bloody, be it more attacks or more actions. It keeps the players on their toes and they seem to enjoy it as well (masochists!)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Conditions. Those are really troublesome - There is a wizard, a cleric and a feylock in the group, and with no restrains they can lock down just about any solo for most of the combat. Sure, it might get out of conditions once in a while, but it will at that point be so amputated and not to mention  far behind in the damage it has to do to keep players challenged, that it will never be able to keep up. Now, I know the advice given by Mearls, to use lower level solos and then add standard monsters to the fight, but I want a system where I can do both. In my vision of things, some monsters just make more sense if they are alone. So I have been trying different things, such as the "save twice per turn" power that gods have, or the "use action point or standard action" to remove effects and several other things. ATM we are testing something new, that (IMO) worked quite well in the Grazz't fight - I call it the condition track. The premise is quite simple. When a solo is hit by the last condition of a spell (so in the case of sleep, its when the sleep part affects it), the condition track takes over. When the solo then makes a saving throw, two things can happen. 1) It makes the save - business as usual. The condition is gone (aftereffects if any kick in) and fight continues. 2) It fails the save - and gains the condition one spot lower on the condition track (save ends). Example: Lets say that Orcus gets stunned (save ends). On his turn (at the end of it), Orcus makes his usual saving throw with +5 solo bonus. If he makes it, he is free (just as always) but if he fails, he is instead dazed (save ends). Sleep / Helpless Stun / No Attack / Dominated Daze Slowed Blind / Weakened -2 to hit Restrained Immobilized Slowed So yes, this means that you will at most get one round of the real powerful conditions to stick on a solo. But TBH, that's like having it on 5 regular monsters for a round, or 5 rounds on one monster. It's pretty good already. I talked it over with my players before implementing it (just as I do with all rules) and they didn't think it was unfair or anything. We'll see how it works, but it will take some time to collect sufficient data. The -2 to hit condition below Blind / Weakened is something I have added because I felt there needed to be something between free of conditions and Blind / Weakened, else the jump would be too big.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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