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<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 9139907" data-attributes="member: 9254">I don't think that's necessary.&nbsp; It took centuries before Europe re-acquired the abilities of Rome, but to say it was all 'post apocalyptic' until the Renaissance seems sketchy.&nbsp; At some point post Roman Empire, people stopped thinking they were post-Roman Empire and were a new, stable, thing.I think some baselines are<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">food shortages have ceased to be endemic for at least a decade, maybe two. (Regional or short lived shortages can still happen but most of the time there are surpluses in storage that can bridge gaps)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">there is rule of law. It can be brutal, but it has to be be considered appropriate by the populace.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">people don't outright fear small numbers of strangers. Wary is fine, fear is not.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">some form of peace exists with neighbors. It can be a &quot;North/South Korea&quot; peace, where you stare at each other across a no-man's land, but if it has been years since the last conflict, it qualifies.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">trade within the polity is common and there are at least two external polities where trade can happen without someone being killed for being a witch/traitor/spy/monster.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The above hold true for a bloc of at least a half dozen polities and not just a few &quot;beacons of light surrounded by darkness.&quot;</li>
</ul>If all those are not true, I think the setting is still clawing its way out.&nbsp; If none of those are true, well, that's basically Apocalypse-adjacent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 9139907, member: 9254"] I don't think that's necessary. It took centuries before Europe re-acquired the abilities of Rome, but to say it was all 'post apocalyptic' until the Renaissance seems sketchy. At some point post Roman Empire, people stopped thinking they were post-Roman Empire and were a new, stable, thing. I think some baselines are [LIST] [*]food shortages have ceased to be endemic for at least a decade, maybe two. (Regional or short lived shortages can still happen but most of the time there are surpluses in storage that can bridge gaps) [*]there is rule of law. It can be brutal, but it has to be be considered appropriate by the populace. [*]people don't outright fear small numbers of strangers. Wary is fine, fear is not. [*]some form of peace exists with neighbors. It can be a "North/South Korea" peace, where you stare at each other across a no-man's land, but if it has been years since the last conflict, it qualifies. [*]trade within the polity is common and there are at least two external polities where trade can happen without someone being killed for being a witch/traitor/spy/monster. [*]The above hold true for a bloc of at least a half dozen polities and not just a few "beacons of light surrounded by darkness." [/LIST] If all those are not true, I think the setting is still clawing its way out. If none of those are true, well, that's basically Apocalypse-adjacent. [/QUOTE]

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