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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 5024388" data-attributes="member: 58197">I think you're using the word &quot;derailment&quot; in a different way from the other posters. It's fine to have skill challenge failure be disruptive and force a radical change of plans. What you don't want is for skill challenge failure to be a brick wall that halts the adventure cold.You brought up failure in combat, so let's use that as a parallel. If the PCs lose a battle and the result is &quot;The BBEG's plan works, now you have to figure out how to overthrow an evil demigod and his infernal legions,&quot; that can make for a really interesting and exciting twist. But if the PCs lose a battle and the result is, &quot;You're all eaten by grues&quot; - not so much.Likewise, if the PCs fail a skill challenge and the result is, &quot;You're captured and thrown in prison, now you have to figure out how to escape or talk your way out,&quot; that can be exciting and fun (though prison scenarios are seldom popular with players).If the PCs fail a skill challenge and the result is, &quot;You can't find the dungeon,&quot; that's usually a bad thing; it tends to bring the game to a screeching halt. My experience is that the players will spend a while fumbling around, making halfhearted attempts to get around the obstacle. If you let those attempts succeed, then the skill challenge seems pointless. If you don't, then the players will run out of ideas and sit around staring at each other until you come up with a way to move things forward. Either way, it kills the energy at the gaming table.What it boils down to is the need to plan for failure. When setting up any kind of puzzle or skill challenge, I always take some time to think about what happens if the PCs fail to solve the puzzle or botch the skill challenge. Failure has to have consequences, or the puzzle/challenge is meaningless. However, those consequences should produce a new and interesting situation, rather than leaving the PCs standing around going, &quot;Uh... now what?&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 5024388, member: 58197"] I think you're using the word "derailment" in a different way from the other posters. It's fine to have skill challenge failure be disruptive and force a radical change of plans. What you don't want is for skill challenge failure to be a brick wall that halts the adventure cold. You brought up failure in combat, so let's use that as a parallel. If the PCs lose a battle and the result is "The BBEG's plan works, now you have to figure out how to overthrow an evil demigod and his infernal legions," that can make for a really interesting and exciting twist. But if the PCs lose a battle and the result is, "You're all eaten by grues" - not so much. Likewise, if the PCs fail a skill challenge and the result is, "You're captured and thrown in prison, now you have to figure out how to escape or talk your way out," that can be exciting and fun (though prison scenarios are seldom popular with players). If the PCs fail a skill challenge and the result is, "You can't find the dungeon," that's usually a bad thing; it tends to bring the game to a screeching halt. My experience is that the players will spend a while fumbling around, making halfhearted attempts to get around the obstacle. If you let those attempts succeed, then the skill challenge seems pointless. If you don't, then the players will run out of ideas and sit around staring at each other until you come up with a way to move things forward. Either way, it kills the energy at the gaming table. What it boils down to is the need to plan for failure. When setting up any kind of puzzle or skill challenge, I always take some time to think about what happens if the PCs fail to solve the puzzle or botch the skill challenge. Failure has to have consequences, or the puzzle/challenge is meaningless. However, those consequences should produce a new and interesting situation, rather than leaving the PCs standing around going, "Uh... now what?" [/QUOTE]

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