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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Erpegis" data-source="post: 4268094" data-attributes="member: 54181">So I've been thinking on the conversion to 4e. Some of my players dislike the simplified skill system, but I rather enjoy it. Nevertheless, some of the accusations are pretty grave:"Oh noes, no Perform skill?! There will be no bards!" "No Craft skill? How does anyone make things in the world". Some of those are pretty ridiculous, so, I might try to justify design team decisions.Two notes: I am just a GM, not affiliated with WotC in any way, and I am talking mostly about my group. I am a H&Ser who rather enjoys combat and dislikes "realism". Appraise - no Appraise skill. Technically we seldom used it and it could be as well rolled into the Craft skill. Which isn't there. However, nothing says you couldn't guesstimate the value of an item by making an Intelligence or Perception check.Balance - wrapped into Acrobatics.Bluff - simplified, used in skill challenges, you can still feint (standard action) and create a diversion.Climb - wrapped into AthleticsConcentration - removed. New power system does not like complications. There are certain powers that allow you to interrupt and stop other people from using their powers, but essentially I see the reasons for removing concentration. It also slowed down the game.Craft - removed. Now, don't panic.  Now, what reasons for the players were there to take a Craft skill?Roleplaying? Simply state "Tordek is a decent blacksmith". Voila, you have a roleplaying bonus.Earning money? Not really viable. The source of income for a D&D adventurer is looting dungeons, and even though you could get some spare gp Craft was not that important.Making masterwork items - in general, it took the most important of the PC resources: time. Note that masterwork items work somewhat different (masterwork armor has to be magical), and the "good quality" of an item would simply be a description.Story-based reasons: So, you want to make a dagger to your friend? Simply do so. It takes time.So here's to you, crafters, make a deal with your DM. Simply declare that you are spending a few days in the smithy, and you'd spend less money on your purchases. One gp for day of the work seems to be okay.Craft for NPCs? Why the hell? A blacksmith is a blacksmith. You don't need his stats, he is just a minion. Simply say "after two days of work, a blacksmith made a sword for you"Decipher Script - deleted, however there is History skill. You could play deciphering an inscription as a skill challenge involving History and Arcana...Diplomacy - no table of attitudes, DC is set much like any other skill (easy, average, hard, based on level). Used extensively in skill challenges.Disable Device - wrapped in ThieveryDisguise - personally, I've always thought of it as a redundant skill. It isn't there. You have Bluff skill.Escape Artist - still is there (sigh), but wrapped in Acrobatics.Forgery - see Craft and Disguise. Forging stuff is fun, but seldom used. It is technically the same as Bluff, only on paper.Gather Information - renamed to Streetwise. Personally, I'd just wrap it up with Diplomacy.Handle Animal - wrapped in Nature skill.Heal - remains the same.Hide - wrapped in StealthIntimidate - remains the same, see Diplomacy skill. IMO could be combined with Bluff, but it's just me.Jump - AthleticsKnowledge - some skills could be used as a substitution of former knowledge skills: Arcana, Religion, History, Dungeoneering and Nature.Listen - PerceptionMove Silently - StealthOpen Lock - ThieveryPerform - deleted. Since the bard will be using the new power system, you won't have to make Perform checks. If you want to be a dancer, simply state so. If you want to influence others by your music, use Diplomacy skill. if you want to earn money, simply test your Charisma. Nevertheless, the Perform skill was nice.Profession - deleted, for similar reasons as Craft. Some of those were pretty redundant anyway. I was running a piratey campaign, and guess how many checks of Profession (sailor) we made? One. Pretty important, but still. The other problem with Profession and Craft skill is that every skill requires a small system on its own. That is, when you take Profession (innkeeper) you should decide what specifically it does.    Ride - deleted. There is Mounted Combat feat that says you can substitute your Athletic, Acrobatic, Endurance and Stealth skills for your mount's (it also allows you to gain special benefits from special mounts)Search - PerceptionSense Motive - renamed to InsightSleight Of Hand - ThieverySpeak Language - replaced by a Linguist featSpellcraft - wrapped in ArcanaSpot - perceptionSurvival - renamed to NatureSwim - athleticsTumble - acrobaticsUse Magic Device - obviously, with new magic system it's no longer neccessary. Pity, though.Use Rope - NOOOO! They removed it! That's it, new skill system sucks! Base DC of Acrobatics to slip out is now 20, what about my input! Waaagh!Seriously though, I miss UMD skill but mostly as a AD&D veteran, and I feel that you could introduce One (1) Profession skill. This would symbolize the general knowledge. Need to make a pot? Make a Profession check. Need to make a sword? Make a Profession check. Need to appraise the value of a crystal? Guess whether this is a good alehouse?It might feel odd for the veteran players, but Craft, Profession and Perform aren't the focus for my games. They are flavor, they are useful for story reasons, but simply, if a player wanted to make a sword, I'd say "You work 3 days and spend 10 gp on the materials".</blockquote>

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