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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ballard_Alvar" data-source="post: 2287031" data-attributes="member: 32222">DrI do see where you are comming from, however I feel CdG is a Special Case.Here is why:  Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.   You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.   Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.   You can’t deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to “find” the creature once you’ve determined what square it’s in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).  see where it says "If the defender survives the damage"?  The Action Coup de Grace was performed, the DC is 10 + damage dealt, it can't be interupted by damage from an AoO, and no circumstance listed for failure of the action.  There isn't any mroe to say.  Now there are DM's that say that it's stupid and chose not to handle it that way. but if that is the case i don't think it will matter too much anyway as it would be difficult for a survivable character to fail such a save. afterall, it is usually only PCs that do it. . . usually.Unless someone can point out something not previouly brought up, then it is my conception that a literal interpretation of RAW indicate a save is still required.  No one ever said D&D made sence.</blockquote>

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