Mutants and Masterminds and ECLs

[Jürgen Hubert]

I don't own Mutants and Masterminds (yet), but I've been wondering...

Could the rules from M&M conceivably be used to create balanced player character races - and figure out their ECLs? I've found the rules in Savage Species to be maddeningly vague ("compare the race to the others that already have ECLs")...

 

[Insight]

Sure. You can create any race in MnM is you wanted to do so. Many of them just have different min/max ability scores and a few Feats thrown in (Darkvision, etc.). I would guess that many of them would be between 2 and 10 pp. The large-sized races would need to buy permanent Growth (4 ranks). Ones with armored skin or the like would buy Protection.

It's quite possible to run a D&D style game using Mutants & Masterminds too. I've thought about it myself.

 

[omnimpotent]

I think you could use MnM to play a game where the players could play more or less balanced characters of any race/class/concept, but the game would be played using essentially MnM rules.

I think it would be difficult to port the DnD races into MnM and then immediately back to DnD for use in determining ECL. If you want creature ECL for straight DnD games, I think the Savage Species book would be a less winding road.

That being said, if you want to run a game where the party consists of a blue slaad, a juvenile dragon, a minotaur berserker, a vampiric kobold sorcerer and a doppleganger assassin, MnM characters and system will probably give you a better time. It's a superhero game, so it doesn't have problems with over-the-top wahoo character powers.

I can't recommend the MnM book enough. Go out and buy it. I haven't even played it yet, and I feel I've already got my moneys worth.

 

[teitan]

While MnM and DnD have the same core mechanic they are not that compatible and require a good dose of conversion so generating ECLs using MnM would not be very easy. A PL 10 character would be an extremely high level DnD character for example because the genre emulated handles much larger power scales within less numbers.

The main issue is the way you use experience points in MnM as compared to DnD. Even a PL 4 character could be a challenge for a 10th level DnD character based on powers picked etc and how long the PC has been played. Levels are not that important in MnM, they just represent a cap on how powerful your individual powers and abilities can be. You could be a PL 7 character and possess enough powers to require 10 pages of powers if you played long enough.

So basically what it comes down to is that MnM and DnD are not compatible, though conversion would be easy, the task you are wondering about would more than likely not be possible.

Jason

 

[Insight]

So basically what it comes down to is that MnM and DnD are not compatible, though conversion would be easy, the task you are wondering about would more than likely not be possible.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the above. Sure, it would take some work, but converting only the racial bonuses and modifiers is not that difficult.

Here are some samples:

HUMAN
D&D: Free Feat and 1 Skill Point/Level.

MnM: Granted, Skill Points/Level is going to be hard to emulate given that you can freely buy as many skills as you want. The Feat costs 2 pp. If you want, you could tack on 1 pp for a Skill Point. Total Cost: 2 or 3 pp.

HALF-ELF
D&D: Immune to Sleep spells, +2 to saves vs. Enchantment spells, Low-Light Vision, +1 to Listen, Spot, and Search, Counts as Elf for Magic Item Purposes.

MnM: Most of these are Feats, though you would need to create some of them yourself as they do not exist in MnM per se. Immune to Sleep spells would be a Feat with a Flaw (1 pp). +2 to Saving Throws vs. Enchantment could be Iron Will with a Flaw (1 pp). Low-Light Vision would be the Darkvision Feat with the Flaw: Limited - Must be some light present (1 pp). Give them a rank of Super-Senses to emulate the bonuses to Listen, Search, and Spot (1 pp). The 'Counts as Elf' thing can be a custom Feat as well, although I would give it a Flaw since it isn't used much (1 pp). Total Cost: 5 pp.

So you can see I easily created the same basic modifiers in MnM as exist in D&D for these races. You can do the same for other, more complicated races as well.

 

[Victim]

Of course, if half elves cost more than humans, than obviously the system isn't a good way to determine ECLs.

 

[teitan]

That is my point exactly Victim. Yeah, one could very easily emulate DnD like fantasy with MnM but the two games would be difficult to work together and not very compatible at all. A PL1 character is definitely weaker than a Level 1 DnD character....

Jason