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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6206938" data-attributes="member: 59082">You hit the nail on the head here, in my opinion - both in terms of characterizing Paizo's success and implying the direction for 5E's possible success. Paizo's success isn't primarily with the actual game system itself. It isn't because the Pathfinder rules are so much better than any version of D&D, but because of other factors that are less quantifiable - like the feeling and vibe of the products and community, the overall aesthetic of the product line, and of course the quality and type of products. The game system is important, but its one of many factors.People usually don't form affinities based upon rational choice, but because something "speaks to us." Certainly one could try to get into, say, gypsy jazz; one can be open-minded about it, try to develop an ear for it. But at some point it either speaks to you or not.This is the dirty little secret about the "edition wars." A lot of it is on a gut level. For instance, a lot of folks still--after five+ years--feel burned by WotC for putting out 4E, and for it not "speaking to them" in the way that "real D&D" is supposed to "speak."This is not to deny legitimate beefs with 4E (or any edition), nor am I saying that this sort of affective response is not valid - it is. But just that a good portion (majority, I think) has to do with feeling and not thinking. Nothing wrong with that, but let's just see it for what it is. The upside of this is that if WotC realizes this, then they can better cater to the fan-base's affect, to emotion and aesthetics, and all of the other factors beyond the mechanics of the game system. It matters what the cover and design of 5E will be; it matter what the core races and classes are. It matters how the game feels, how the community feels, what the "vibe" of the designers are in relation to the game and the fans. As someone said in this or another thread (they're all starting to blend together), D&D is never going to be the best designed game system in terms of the aesthetics of game design. Some of the core tropes and iconic components are too anachronistic; there's been decades of game design evolution since. 3E did an amazing job of bringing a 70s-esque system into, at least, the 90s and on par with the state of the art systems of the late 80s and early 90s like Ars Magica and Mage/Vampire. But by the time 3E came out, there was an indie revolution going on, and all kinds of design innovations that immediately made 3E's game system look as old-fashioned as the Stone Roses or Soundgarden. But that's not why people play, and love, D&D. They play and love it becauses its Dungeons & frickin' Dragons, complete with an ampersand and all. Because you get to roll a d20 and miss 5% of the time, even if you're Lancelot. Because you get to fight demiliches and wield vorpal blades, you get to wonder about the ecology of a gelatinous cube, yet at the same time don't worry too much about what the numerous denizens of a dungeon actually eat (not to mention where they go potty!). Its D&D, and its a feeling. Mostly!</blockquote>

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