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<blockquote data-quote="nonsi256" data-source="post: 5063302" data-attributes="member: 86164">[FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; These are all issues that are covered[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]I’ve read the rules. They're all based upon Reverse Gravity (how do you extrapolate different speeds &amp; prices out of that spell, which doesn’t even remotely work like that, is beyond me).


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; You made a previous claim that the[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; DMG seemed arbitrary and a lot of[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; 'hand waving' was done, yet I pointed[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; out more than one instance where tha[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; book had answers or guidance that[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; you were lacking. [/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]what you saw then was a work in progress. Did you look at the final result?


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; The same holds true here. I don't really[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; see where you're getting that the prices[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; in the SBG are arbitrary. They definitely[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; seemed to be based logically on some [/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; formula though like magic items in the[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; DMG there are some price discrepancies[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; here and there that could be attributed[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; to lackluster editing.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]If you recognize a pattern, I’d sure be glad to see one.


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; Same thing with your 'handwaving'[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; accusation which isn't really a fair complaint.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]It’s not a personal thing, you know. I just call’em as I see’em.


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; Its not up to the writers to cover ALL[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; possible applications of their rules.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]The main issue I’m having with the given rules is that they dictate prices according to the numbers. You can’t use that to formulate.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]What dictates prices should be the spell’s level, its frequency of use, how action-taxing its activation is and the caster-level in which it operates.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]I found no info on any of the above.


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; They just provide the rules and in a[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; clear enough manner for the DM to[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; apply them to what he wants to do.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]Not clear enough for me or for hundreds of others who started debates I saw on that matter.


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; The only issue that might not be covered[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; in the SBG is the 'floating island' one. But[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; that is largely a moot point. PCs don't create[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; floating islands. Travel to them, maybe.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; Figure out how to crash or sink one, possibly.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; Make them, nope. They don't get enough[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; wealth or resources to do that.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]At the mortal-epic borderline?[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]Why not? What if I’m a real slick player and I’ve found a way to manipulate a lot of forces around me to fix myself a real nice cash flow? What if that’s exactly where I was aiming for in terms of character development?


[/FONT]&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; Epic characters...maybe, but that is a[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; process that would largely be (to use[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; your own term) handwaved into[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; existence because the process to create[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; a floating island would largely be a one[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; time, one shot thing. Unless your players[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; are just rolling in enough cash and real[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; estate to attempt to create airborne[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]&gt;&gt; island after airborne island.[/FONT]&nbsp; [FONT=&amp;quot]So can be the case for “regular” items. It depends on a lot of parameters.[/FONT]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nonsi256, post: 5063302, member: 86164"] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> These are all issues that are covered[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]I’ve read the rules. They're all based upon Reverse Gravity (how do you extrapolate different speeds & prices out of that spell, which doesn’t even remotely work like that, is beyond me). [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> You made a previous claim that the[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> DMG seemed arbitrary and a lot of[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> 'hand waving' was done, yet I pointed[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> out more than one instance where tha[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> book had answers or guidance that[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> you were lacking. [/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]what you saw then was a work in progress. Did you look at the final result? [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> The same holds true here. I don't really[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> see where you're getting that the prices[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> in the SBG are arbitrary. They definitely[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> seemed to be based logically on some [/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> formula though like magic items in the[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> DMG there are some price discrepancies[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> here and there that could be attributed[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> to lackluster editing.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]If you recognize a pattern, I’d sure be glad to see one. [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> Same thing with your 'handwaving'[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> accusation which isn't really a fair complaint.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]It’s not a personal thing, you know. I just call’em as I see’em. [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> Its not up to the writers to cover ALL[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> possible applications of their rules.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]The main issue I’m having with the given rules is that they dictate prices according to the numbers. You can’t use that to formulate.[/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]What dictates prices should be the spell’s level, its frequency of use, how action-taxing its activation is and the caster-level in which it operates.[/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]I found no info on any of the above. [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> They just provide the rules and in a[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> clear enough manner for the DM to[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> apply them to what he wants to do.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]Not clear enough for me or for hundreds of others who started debates I saw on that matter. [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> The only issue that might not be covered[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> in the SBG is the 'floating island' one. But[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> that is largely a moot point. PCs don't create[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> floating islands. Travel to them, maybe.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> Figure out how to crash or sink one, possibly.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> Make them, nope. They don't get enough[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> wealth or resources to do that.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]At the mortal-epic borderline?[/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]Why not? What if I’m a real slick player and I’ve found a way to manipulate a lot of forces around me to fix myself a real nice cash flow? What if that’s exactly where I was aiming for in terms of character development? [/FONT][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> Epic characters...maybe, but that is a[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> process that would largely be (to use[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> your own term) handwaved into[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> existence because the process to create[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> a floating island would largely be a one[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> time, one shot thing. Unless your players[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> are just rolling in enough cash and real[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> estate to attempt to create airborne[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][B][FONT=&quot]>> island after airborne island.[/FONT][/B][/LEFT] [LEFT][FONT=&quot]So can be the case for “regular” items. It depends on a lot of parameters.[/FONT][/LEFT] [/QUOTE]

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