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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7480683" data-attributes="member: 42582">Where we differ, I think, is this:I think that when the GM tells the players (or when the group sits around and decides among themselves, in more consensus-oriented RPGing) Here's what you see and what you know, that is playing the game. It's not a prior step that then enables play to take place.Whereas you seem to be disagreeing (with your reference to "game creation engines" etc).If I've misunderstood what I think is a disagreement, I'm happy to be put straight!The reason I think it matters is actually similar to yours: by framing establishing the shared fiction as prep, or as a "game creation" step, I think you prioritise some styles of RPGing (mainly (i) classic dungeon crawling and (ii) GM-driven adventure paths and modules) over others. Whereas I want to keep those others clearly in the frame.And on the issue of set-up: I don't know if you've ever read the rules for In a Wicked Age, but it is probably the clearest presentation of RPG setup as game setup that I know. It begins with an Invitation:Invitation what: In a Wicked Age who: You and three or four of your smartest, boldest, most creative, and hottest friends where: In your living room, or around your dining room table when: Once a week or twice a month, for several weeks or a few months bring: Mixed dice   The Four Oracles   A deck of cards (with the jokers out)   Copies of the sheets   Pencils   Snacks: tea, wine, nuts, chocolates, fruit For dice, you’ll need a few of every size (except twenties). Be sure you have sixes with numbers and sixes with pips, both, too. For sheets, you’ll need a story sheet, a character sheet for each player, a handful of NPC sheets, a few particular strength sheets, and an owe list. The first time, just write “we owe” at the top of a blank sheet; after that, keep the same owe list going.There are then three pages of instructions on getting started - diving the oracles, establishing the characters and filling in their sheets, and designing any "particular effects" (ie magic and similar special abilities) needed for those characters. At the end of those pages is the following:Wait here until everyone’s made all their character sheets and particular strength sheets (for those who do). If you’re finished early and waiting, maybe it’s time to pour the wine?There's then another two pages on establishing characters' "best interests", which is the Belief/Alignment/IBF mechanic that actually drives play. That concludes:At the end, you should have a situation not easily untangled and about to turn really bad. Some of the characters will be able to achieve their interests, concievably, but only by fighting and meaning it, and only by taking other characters’ best interests away. Dedicated rivals, aggressive enemies, and alliances fragile at best. It’s time to start the game.It's complicated setup compared to chess or backgammon. It's easier than some boardgames (eg Magic Realm, which I own but don't really understand). I'm sure it's easier than some wargames (I've never played Empires in Arms, but from my knowledge of it I'm guessing its set up rules take more than 5 pages, and probably takes more than the hour or so that IaWA took <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?642562-In-a-Wicked-Age-session-report" target="_blank">when I ran a session of it</a>).</blockquote>

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