Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Thotas" data-source="post: 3016048" data-attributes="member: 18974">Since the beginning of 3.x, the detractors that have annoyed me most are the ones who say that it's just a combat game for munchkins that has no role-playing rules -- and when shown these rules say that this proves their point since it replaces &quot;role playing with roll playing&quot;, not noticing that they've basicly reversed their original complaint of &quot;there are no roleplaying rules&quot; to &quot;there shouldn't be any roleplaying rules&quot;.&nbsp; That's not what you're doing, but you're coming close.&nbsp; These rules aren't meant to replace the way that things were done in 1e.&nbsp; I will grant in a hot second that they are written in a way that makes it very easy to interpret them that way, especially if you're new to gaming.&nbsp; Which includes a lot of people, considering how many new players made 3.x a huge success when D&amp;D was close to moribund.&nbsp; The best way to use the skills is to make them supplementary to old-fashioned role-playing.&nbsp; Bluff is my fave example.&nbsp; Suppose the guards catch my rogue, and he tries to fast talk his way out of it.&nbsp; Many people think it's time for me to make a Bluff roll, and if I make it, that's all there is too it.&nbsp; Wrong. I have to tell the DM what my slick story is, or at least I should, because how good my story is modifies the Sense Motive check.&nbsp; Furthermore, if my story implies that I'm leaving immediately, the DM should know what my story is so that if I get caught again in an hour, he knows my excuse is no longer any good.&nbsp; Gather Information check?&nbsp; I should tell the DM where I go, what type of person I'm connecting with, what sort of questions I ask or bribes I offer.&nbsp; This might affect my chance of success -- if the DM has the situation defined enough, it may negate the need for a roll.&nbsp; In fact, in the cases of all the skills mentioned, there are times like that.&nbsp; The DM has the situation delineated such that he knows exactly what sort of diplomatic overtures will work and which ones won't in one case, but in another, the players have gone off on a tangent and the DM didn't have the situation prepared.&nbsp; No roll in first situation, handy rules in the second.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thotas, post: 3016048, member: 18974"] Since the beginning of 3.x, the detractors that have annoyed me most are the ones who say that it's just a combat game for munchkins that has no role-playing rules -- and when shown [I]these[/I] rules say that this proves their point since it replaces "role playing with roll playing", not noticing that they've basicly reversed their original complaint of "there are no roleplaying rules" to "there shouldn't be any roleplaying rules". That's not what you're doing, but you're coming close. These rules aren't meant to replace the way that things were done in 1e. I will grant in a hot second that they are written in a way that makes it very easy to interpret them that way, especially if you're new to gaming. Which includes a lot of people, considering how many new players made 3.x a huge success when D&D was close to moribund. The best way to use the skills is to make them [I]supplementary[/I] to old-fashioned role-playing. Bluff is my fave example. Suppose the guards catch my rogue, and he tries to fast talk his way out of it. Many people think it's time for me to make a Bluff roll, and if I make it, that's all there is too it. Wrong. I have to tell the DM what my slick story is, or at least I should, because how good my story is modifies the Sense Motive check. Furthermore, if my story implies that I'm leaving immediately, the DM should know what my story is so that if I get caught again in an hour, he knows my excuse is no longer any good. Gather Information check? I should tell the DM where I go, what type of person I'm connecting with, what sort of questions I ask or bribes I offer. This might affect my chance of success -- if the DM has the situation defined enough, it may negate the need for a roll. In fact, in the cases of all the skills mentioned, there are times like that. The DM has the situation delineated such that he knows exactly what sort of diplomatic overtures will work and which ones won't in one case, but in another, the players have gone off on a tangent and the DM didn't have the situation prepared. No roll in first situation, handy rules in the second. [/QUOTE]

Verification