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<blockquote data-quote="Chimera" data-source="post: 3016156" data-attributes="member: 2002">I think a large part of the problem is the incorrect usage of the skills.I've had GMs make me make Diplomacy rolls for some of the most basic interaction.&nbsp; One to the point where I got quite irate.&nbsp; Another did stupid stuff like have the merchant sell us stuff at what is probably less than his cost, all because we rolled a good Diplomacy check.&nbsp; Both of these are excessive and not supported by the rules.You can't make someone agree to whore out their beloved wife and rape the neighbor's sheep in public just because you roll a +65 Diplomacy check.&nbsp; Yet too many GMs act as if that is the way that it works.Sense Motive is a serious problem if you allow the person to figure out EXACTLY what the person is lying about or *what they really mean/intend* based on a die roll.&nbsp; I mean, come off it now.&nbsp; Can you do that with a spell?&nbsp; Without them making a save or noticing?&nbsp; Then you can't do it with a simple skill check.&nbsp; Like someone else on this board once said, and I've been using since, &quot;He knows more than he's saying.&quot;&nbsp; Pretty worthless, as nearly everyone knows more than they say.Intimidate doesn't necessarily mean that they fall down and wet themselves in your presence.&nbsp; Sure, they might be intimidated, but they might still fight you!&nbsp; Those guards might be shaking in their boots, but they aren't going to spill their guts and run away just because you say &quot;boo&quot;.&nbsp; Not likely, anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chimera, post: 3016156, member: 2002"] I think a large part of the problem is the incorrect usage of the skills. I've had GMs make me make Diplomacy rolls for some of the most basic interaction. One to the point where I got quite irate. Another did stupid stuff like have the merchant sell us stuff at what is probably less than his cost, all because we rolled a good Diplomacy check. Both of these are excessive and not supported by the rules. You can't make someone agree to whore out their beloved wife and rape the neighbor's sheep in public just because you roll a +65 Diplomacy check. Yet too many GMs act as if that is the way that it works. Sense Motive is a serious problem if you allow the person to figure out EXACTLY what the person is lying about or *what they really mean/intend* based on a die roll. I mean, come off it now. Can you do that with a spell? Without them making a save or noticing? Then you can't do it with a simple skill check. Like someone else on this board once said, and I've been using since, "He knows more than he's saying." Pretty worthless, as nearly everyone knows more than they say. Intimidate doesn't necessarily mean that they fall down and wet themselves in your presence. Sure, they might be intimidated, but they might still fight you! Those guards might be shaking in their boots, but they aren't going to spill their guts and run away just because you say "boo". Not likely, anyway. [/QUOTE]

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