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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imagicka" data-source="post: 3016859" data-attributes="member: 4621">Greetings...Well, the way I see it is...what we got here is a failure to communicate...I believe that you are looking at the game in one perspective, and the game designers had something else completely different in mind.Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the core idea you have for your stance is that all these skills should be replaced with players roleplaying the situation at hand.  Having the players roleplaying out a situation is substitute having the roll a die, and use a skill?  That players should be forced to ask questions, and roleplay situations out to gather knowledge, or intimidate or whatever...? Yes?Well, I do believe that you understand what I believe to be the core philosophy in the design of these social skills in the game.  I see it as two-fold... or multi-functional.  The first is to give a fare and honest arbitration based on a dice roll is one purpose.  The second is that if you don't really want to roleplay that out (which some players do), you don't have to, there is a mechanic there to keep things honest and above board.However, I do give roleplaying situational bonuses.  If a player role-plays trying to get information from the bartender...I'll give those players a +2, for the roleplaying effort.  After all, it makes the game a little more enjoyable (in my opinion) when players can get into character a little bit.  Because in table-top games I've been involved with, players tend not to be as in-character as other forms of roleplaying.  Now, as for DM's not putting the players in situations where they don't use their special abilities all that often... such a cleric that never gets to cast Turn Undead.  Or the ranger who doesn't get to fight his favoured foe... Well, I fell that's the job of the DM to look at these things.  Tailor adventures and situations towards the players so they get to show off now and then.  It's the name of the game.I like to see campaigns where violence and conflict were averted because of some social skill, such as Diplomacy.  But if the fighter getting frustrated.  Then there should have been more situations where diplomacy wasn't going to work.  The DM should account for player enjoyment and frustration.  Again....this goes back to my Limelight Theory.  Every player/character should have a chance to bask in the limelight.  Perhaps a little bit every game session.  Perhaps a lot during the whole adventure.  But then make sure everyone gets equal focus and tailoring.There is nothing in the game that says people can't Houserule new skills like Knowledge: Puzzles/Riddles... Knowledge Symbology... whatever.  But the DM should make sure that the skills characters have should be used, and if they can utilize.  If a game is such that you have a GM who likes using puzzles and riddles, and you have players who don't like such things, aren't good at such things, and would rather just have some rule determine their success or not... so be it... Personally, I see puzzles and riddles a meta-challenge myself.  Something that the players have to do.  If you have a bunch of players not interested in puzzles and riddles, then there is no reason to have them.  But having all these rules and mechanics can mediate and resolve lots of situations and conflicts, or you can let more situations be resolved by the players with their own skills of problem-solving and roleplaying/acting. but there is a middle-ground that has to be reached by the game-designers to give their own vision of what they envision what the game should be. Now, also...let me get this straight... your saying that the information given to the players would be given to them eventually by the DM regardless if they have Gather Information or not?  Personally, I've never run things like that.  If the players don't bother to get involved with the events around them... if they don't have Gather Information to figure out what they should do... then problems start arising, and sooner or later, the party become swept away with events...For example... I lay hints that orcs are raiding a nearby village, expecting the Ranger or the Paladin to want to do something about it.  If they don't figure out where the orcs are, how strong they are, and eventually deal with this problem.  The problem becomes bigger...the orc tribe grows in strength and size.  Players still do nothing... orcs ransack towns.  Then it becomes a domino chain of events... the local lord has to organize a militia to deal with the orc problems.  Party might be gathered up into a press gang... or the party happens upon an orcish raiding party.I do expect the players, especially experienced ones to pick up on the queues I place in the game, and they build their characters to take advantage of social skills, and to become actively involved, but it the current affairs, or their own character's affairs.  If the players want to do nothing and get sweep up into an adventure because they were at the wrong place at the right time...well, that can be arranged too.But I do agree in one aspect.  The game can become choosing the player best suited for the job.  After all, that's usually what it's all about... okay... we need  to get into the witch's house.  We could have someone climb the wall to get to the window to break and enter into the place...or we could have someone attempt to pick the lock on the door...or bash the door down.  Oh, we can't break the door down, we have to be quiet?  Hmm...climb or open lock... so who's the best person for the job here?  Or whatever...The game has pretty much been designed that the party members have too few skills points/ranks to have a wide range of skills and abilities.  Especially if your a class that doesn't get a lot of skill points per level.  I totally believe that most characters are totally not skilled enough, not for games where you have social problems/situations that can be resolved with some good planning, thinking and problem-solving that circumvents violence and direct physical conflict. That every class, especially the core classes, specialize/focus their skills and abilities in ways that rarely ever are shared by fellow party members.</blockquote>

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