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<blockquote data-quote="Nalfeshnee" data-source="post: 3016876" data-attributes="member: 27130">What i do with social skills is RP them first and, depending on the players roleplaying, use a modifier on the subsequent roll (generally Bluff and Diplomacy; Gather Information works fine without the need of too much RP [it would take too long otherwise])and regarding Sense Motive (along with Use Rope and Knowledge checks) i usually make those rolls for the players myself. A roll of a one would immedeatly tell the player that the check failed, but telling him 'the guard seems to be saying the truth' could mean either a failure or a success and the target is not lying. That seems realistic enough to me.Also, i dont like the analogy betweent puzzles and diplomacy. A player who is good at solving puzzles is good at solving puzzles. One who has a knack for poleplaying a charismatic character does the same, but the difference is that a puzzle has no will or sentience - if the player can solve it, he solves it. Whereas, if a player can roleplay his character as a persuasive haggler, he can do that, but if he tries it on a construct or an PC with an iron will, he's not going to do anything. Which to me necessitates a skill for Diplomacy (which justifies the level check to oppose it) and no skill for puzzle solving...Confusing and ill-constructed, i know, but there yo ugo <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Nalfeshnee, post: 3016876, member: 27130"] What i do with social skills is RP them first and, depending on the players roleplaying, use a modifier on the subsequent roll (generally Bluff and Diplomacy; Gather Information works fine without the need of too much RP [it would take too long otherwise]) and regarding Sense Motive (along with Use Rope and Knowledge checks) i usually make those rolls for the players myself. A roll of a one would immedeatly tell the player that the check failed, but telling him 'the guard seems to be saying the truth' could mean either a failure or a success and the target is not lying. That seems realistic enough to me. Also, i dont like the analogy betweent puzzles and diplomacy. A player who is good at solving puzzles is good at solving puzzles. One who has a knack for poleplaying a charismatic character does the same, but the difference is that a puzzle has no will or sentience - if the player can solve it, he solves it. Whereas, if a player can roleplay his character as a persuasive haggler, he can do that, but if he tries it on a construct or an PC with an iron will, he's not going to do anything. Which to me necessitates a skill for Diplomacy (which justifies the level check to oppose it) and no skill for puzzle solving... Confusing and ill-constructed, i know, but there yo ugo :p [/QUOTE]

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