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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanatos" data-source="post: 3017334" data-attributes="member: 5261">I've had some similiar concerns before about some of these myself...here is how I dealt with them:I only require gather information checks for really obscure knowledge/information or if a player thinks a mark knows something and tries to verbally trick an answer out of him. I'll also use it if the character is doing some kind of records or library search to find some forgotten/misplaced/hard to locate information.When it comes to Sense Motive, I give my players a choice...they can either just go with their gut and play it out that way, knowing that as DM, they really shouldn't draw inflections from me...or they can roll, but if they roll, they must abide to play their character in the direction of what the result is. I make it a gamble, if they succeed, they get a really great insight, if they fail, they may have the whole situation wrong, but previously agreed to play it out based ont he roll. Potential assurance comes with a potential price. Which makes bluff for NPC's still somewhat useful...because inevitably, someone always takes the chance and rolls <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I make this a Str/Cha skill: The player picks which attribute fuels this skill. Players are allowed to make an opposed Will save to avoid being intimidated, with situational modifiers. If they fail, they suffer -2 to all relevant rolls for the encounter. Just because a player is not intimidated, doesn't mean their character can't. beIn your example, if the characters have fought alot of ogres, they'd get a +2 or +4 to their opposing check...but if its their first encounters, it would be a standard roll...or with a -2 modifier if the ogre was currently gnawing on one of the villagers bones when they entered. Again, the players aren't the characters...I am rarely intimidated by a monster...my characters however...I treat this very similiar to how I do Bluff, with an opposed Sense Motive allowed. Hence, it can work for a PC if they agree to abide by the results of the roll. Also, I don't allow it to absolutely 180degree turn the outcome of an encounter. With role-play and a Diplomacy check, they may manage to stay their executions for a little while, convince someone to let them in a hard to access location, etc. I let it modify situations more favorably or less favorably, depending on their roll. Modifiers to it (+2 or -2) if they roleplay it out as well.In your example, instead of letting you turn nearly every combat encounter into a friendly one, it would be been like "Okay, I really likes you guys...you can surrender to us instead of us having to kill yous. Then were gonna take you to our leader." (bad spelling on purpose).So, Diplomacy worked, combat possibly averted, depending on the party's next actions <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> An outcome thats changed favorably, doesn't mean a scott-free walk <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Stuff with like puzzles (I suck at them, riddles too), I allow people to make Int checks and give them clues to use in solving it. Players aren't necessairly going to be able to solve some of these obscure things, so the Bards and 18 Int wizards get a chance to shine a bit with skill rolls to help their players along.I don't think you are wrong in your observations...DM's handle these things differently. Some better then others. I am sure for many, these never even become issues in their games.In th end, if they are your games, just allow them to be used to modify situations, give the players an edge in something or a slight disadvantage. It's all in how you apply their usage.</blockquote>

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