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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 3019126" data-attributes="member: 20323">It's just agonizing to me to watch you guys re-create the wheel. There are two sides I'm hearing, neither with very juicy solutions:(1) Ditch the social rules and role-play it!(2) The rules are fine just as they are - use a modifier for a good role-play.The problem with (1) is that it handicaps players who aren't as charming or quick-witted. While RPGs are essentially talking games, it seems to trample on the imagination of the shy young boy who really wants to play a commander of armies or a dashing bard.The problem with (2) is that the typical modifier is so small that the real result is determined by the roll of the die. In other words, it breaks immersion to rely on chance, trampling on the abilities of charming and quick-witted players.Steven Peterson's .pdf &quot;Skill Focus&quot; is ingenuis. He creates neat tricks for the interaction skills that empower the player to portray that sort of character. Thus, the dull/over-worked/prosaic player gains tricks he can use to convincingly portray his PC's high-ranked interaction skills, while the charming quick-witted player can rely on his talents but won't get the extra help unless he's also invested ranks in interaction skills. Also, the pdf includes guidelines for &quot;using&quot; NPC interaction skills with PCs. I really think this overlooked .pdf has great potential for resolving this argument (and inspiring some other areas where the same logic can be applied) - they should positively become core rules for any campaign using social skills!Now, I'll agree that Sense Motive should not be able to detect lie. Instead it should do just what the name says - sense motivation (e.g. &quot;He says he's just interested in helping the princess, but it's clear to you that greed is in his eyes&quot;).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 3019126, member: 20323"] It's just agonizing to me to watch you guys re-create the wheel. There are two sides I'm hearing, neither with very juicy solutions: (1) Ditch the social rules and role-play it! (2) The rules are fine just as they are - use a modifier for a good role-play. The problem with (1) is that it handicaps players who aren't as charming or quick-witted. While RPGs are essentially talking games, it seems to trample on the imagination of the shy young boy who really wants to play a commander of armies or a dashing bard. The problem with (2) is that the typical modifier is so small that the real result is determined by the roll of the die. In other words, it breaks immersion to rely on chance, trampling on the abilities of charming and quick-witted players. Steven Peterson's .pdf "Skill Focus" is ingenuis. He creates neat tricks for the interaction skills that empower the player to portray that sort of character. Thus, the dull/over-worked/prosaic player gains tricks he can use to convincingly portray his PC's high-ranked interaction skills, while the charming quick-witted player can rely on his talents but won't get the extra help unless he's also invested ranks in interaction skills. Also, the pdf includes guidelines for "using" NPC interaction skills with PCs. I really think this overlooked .pdf has [i]great[/i] potential for resolving this argument (and inspiring some other areas where the same logic can be applied) - they should positively become core rules for any campaign using social skills! Now, I'll agree that Sense Motive should not be able to detect lie. Instead it should do just what the name says - sense [i]motivation[/i] (e.g. "He says he's just interested in helping the princess, but it's clear to you that greed is in his eyes"). [/QUOTE]

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