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<blockquote data-quote="BeauNiddle" data-source="post: 3020035" data-attributes="member: 836">This needs repeating.Many many times.If I take the effort to spend skill points in an ability I'd like to actually use that ability. Nobody is asking for the DM to throw the adventure away and just declare 'You win' just because I roll a dice but I am asking the DM to put me in the limelight (for a while at least).I've DMed modules and they invariably come with loads of background information. Lots of dungeons have thematic choices in them (monster X lives next to monster Y because ...) Allow us to see this information. Whenever I DMed there was always so much more information the players could have picked up on - the social skills IMO allow easier access to this. Maybe you're a better DM or your players are more through and they never leave information unfound but for me having extra avenues to give players BACKGROUND information was a godsend.However I'm biased after a WFRP game where my (randomly rolled) character's only skill was diplomacy and yet the DM seemed to treat conversations like those early computer adventure games where you had to get the EXACT verb noun structure to unlock the next conversation piece.N.B. I allowed my players to use intimidate in a 'threaten' maneauvre. The threaten the target with physical force, use their STR not CHA modifier, and then they see if the target complies. The downside to this method was that the target invariably went looking for the biggest toughest guard the instant the PCs turned their backs. It was useful for getting people to back off and leave them alone but did mean they had to leave a few places pretty sharpish <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="BeauNiddle, post: 3020035, member: 836"] This needs repeating. Many many times. If I take the effort to spend skill points in an ability I'd like to actually use that ability. Nobody is asking for the DM to throw the adventure away and just declare 'You win' just because I roll a dice but I am asking the DM to put me in the limelight (for a while at least). I've DMed modules and they invariably come with loads of background information. Lots of dungeons have thematic choices in them (monster X lives next to monster Y because ...) Allow us to see this information. Whenever I DMed there was always so much more information the players could have picked up on - the social skills IMO allow easier access to this. Maybe you're a better DM or your players are more through and they never leave information unfound but for me having extra avenues to give players BACKGROUND information was a godsend. However I'm biased after a WFRP game where my (randomly rolled) character's only skill was diplomacy and yet the DM seemed to treat conversations like those early computer adventure games where you had to get the EXACT verb noun structure to unlock the next conversation piece. N.B. I allowed my players to use intimidate in a 'threaten' maneauvre. The threaten the target with physical force, use their STR not CHA modifier, and then they see if the target complies. The downside to this method was that the target invariably went looking for the biggest toughest guard the instant the PCs turned their backs. It was useful for getting people to back off and leave them alone but did mean they had to leave a few places pretty sharpish :) [/QUOTE]

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