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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
My Biggest Concern for Pathfinder 2e
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7790348" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>Since not only level but also numbers enter the equation it isn't quite that simple. You know how people talk about "force multipliers"? I would consider this concept useful here:</p><p></p><p>On its own, yes, I can tentatively agree a L+4 monster is equal to four L+0 monsters, at least for the purpose of this argument. You gain harder attacks and better defense, but you lose 9 out of 12 actions.</p><p></p><p>But if you consider a band of goblins led by this ogre (or whatever, don't have the Bestiary on hand) to be a number of L+0's and a L+4, then the main weakness of that L+4 (its action handicap vs a party of 4-5 heroes) disappears, and it ONLY has strengths going for it. The adventurers are trapped in a conundrum; they must focus on the Ogre or it will kill them all, but they must also focus on the Goblins, or sheer numbers will prevail. When the heroes "action budget" isn't big enough, something will break.</p><p></p><p>I can see this tendency also in 5E of course, in that if a CR+6 boss monster is a challenging (but ultimately not really loseable) fight on its own for my mid-level heroes, that fight can become surprisingly tough by just adding a dozen CR-6 critters. It all boils down to how many actions the adds can "steal" - actions the heroes would have used to whale on the BBEG, but now feel compelled to spend on thinning the herd of low-level adds. </p><p></p><p>(Note: since levels work both ways, I imagine the idea of using L-4 mooks to supplant a BBEG works less well in Pathfinder 2. That is, I expect the correct response to being swarmed by a group of L-4's is to completely ignore them whenever possible, since they are not likely to cause any serious damage before the team has brought down the BBEG)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7790348, member: 12731"] Since not only level but also numbers enter the equation it isn't quite that simple. You know how people talk about "force multipliers"? I would consider this concept useful here: On its own, yes, I can tentatively agree a L+4 monster is equal to four L+0 monsters, at least for the purpose of this argument. You gain harder attacks and better defense, but you lose 9 out of 12 actions. But if you consider a band of goblins led by this ogre (or whatever, don't have the Bestiary on hand) to be a number of L+0's and a L+4, then the main weakness of that L+4 (its action handicap vs a party of 4-5 heroes) disappears, and it ONLY has strengths going for it. The adventurers are trapped in a conundrum; they must focus on the Ogre or it will kill them all, but they must also focus on the Goblins, or sheer numbers will prevail. When the heroes "action budget" isn't big enough, something will break. I can see this tendency also in 5E of course, in that if a CR+6 boss monster is a challenging (but ultimately not really loseable) fight on its own for my mid-level heroes, that fight can become surprisingly tough by just adding a dozen CR-6 critters. It all boils down to how many actions the adds can "steal" - actions the heroes would have used to whale on the BBEG, but now feel compelled to spend on thinning the herd of low-level adds. (Note: since levels work both ways, I imagine the idea of using L-4 mooks to supplant a BBEG works less well in Pathfinder 2. That is, I expect the correct response to being swarmed by a group of L-4's is to completely ignore them whenever possible, since they are not likely to cause any serious damage before the team has brought down the BBEG) [/QUOTE]
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