Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
My Biggest Concern for Pathfinder 2e
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7797799" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>In general I do not like to think about game designs in terms of fixing problems. I prefer to think of different games in terms of cultivating different sorts of play experiences. There are some features of 5th Edition that make it difficult for me to manage as a GM at the table and not as exciting as some other games when I am a player. These are my own issues. I do not really want to make a big deal about. I still really enjoy playing it, but not so much running it.</p><p></p><p>Here are some areas where I anticipate the Pathfinder 2 improving handling time for me.</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The text is remarkably clear and concise. It uses templates, traits, and precise language to make it easy to parse and reference rules at the table. This is probably my biggest issue with 5th Edition at the table.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The action economy is a lot more fluid, intuitive, and has much fewer exceptions. It lacks things like split moves, abilities that use movement as a resource, abilities that use up one of your attacks, and the like. Because things just cost a certain number of actions there is no juggling action vs bonus action vs movement. You do a thing and costs 1, 2, or 3 actions. Done.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Almost everything that has a limited use is either a spell that uses spell slots or a focus spell that uses focus points. The way these things work is consistent across character classes. There are no class features on their own resource individual resource schedules like Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Lay On Hands, Action Surge and the like.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rules that have a similar effect almost always use the exact same mechanic. Proficiency works the same way for weapons, armor, skills, saves, Perception, Class DC, Spell DC, and spell attack. Every score can be used as a check or a DC. Any effect that counters a spell or ability works in exactly the same way. You learn a rule once and can apply it all over the place.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Interactions between abilities are clear thanks to traits. You do not have to guess if Mind Blank will impact casting a certain spell or if a creature's immunity or resistance applies to a given attack.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Where the game expects you to apply GM judgement it flat out tells you and gives you tools to help determine things like DCs. There is strong advice and examples on how to handle things like Knowledge checks. </li> </ul><p></p><p>Here are the things that have me excited about the game as a GM</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nothing is a sure thing. Blanket player side immunities are gone. Spells have been written so that there is less certainty over the outcome. Spells like Remove Disease now give you a chance to counter the Disease. Mind Blank, Nondetection, and True Seeing now give you a chance to overcome spells and other abilities. Thanks to degrees of success and failure there is now a broader range of outcomes for most spells. They have reinvigorated the drama of playing a spell caster.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The game has a strong focus on exploration. Things like licking your wounds after battle, repairing shields, recovering focus spells, choosing to search or sneak about, and the like are clearly defined parts of the game with implications on encounters. As someone who is very found of B/X this makes me inordinately happy.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Everything is very grounded in the fiction. Abilities describe how your character is doing the thing that they are doing. Anything that is supernatural is called out as such. Martial characters have no limited use abilities. The action economy is their only playground. Focus spells are explicitly supernatural.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Many character classes have features that ground them in the larger setting. If you are a champion you have a specific set of oaths and a connection to a patron deity that impacts your behavior with a specific set of edicts and anathema. Sorcerers blood magic connects them to the setting and there is a sidebar reminding players that their bloodline will impact the way people see them. Powerful rituals require secondary casters that require players to interact with the setting to achieve. Some even require that the secondary casters are followers of the same faith.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Items and spells have an indicated rarity with anything that is Uncommon or Rare assumed to be something that must be acquired through play. It also indicates that we cannot really assume every wizard has access to spells like Mind Blank and Teleport.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The monsters look like a lot of fun. They pretty much all have unique abilities and many have weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. In many ways monsters have become like puzzles to solve. Some like the hydra even require you to kill them in a specific way. </li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7797799, member: 16586"] In general I do not like to think about game designs in terms of fixing problems. I prefer to think of different games in terms of cultivating different sorts of play experiences. There are some features of 5th Edition that make it difficult for me to manage as a GM at the table and not as exciting as some other games when I am a player. These are my own issues. I do not really want to make a big deal about. I still really enjoy playing it, but not so much running it. Here are some areas where I anticipate the Pathfinder 2 improving handling time for me. [LIST] [*]The text is remarkably clear and concise. It uses templates, traits, and precise language to make it easy to parse and reference rules at the table. This is probably my biggest issue with 5th Edition at the table. [*]The action economy is a lot more fluid, intuitive, and has much fewer exceptions. It lacks things like split moves, abilities that use movement as a resource, abilities that use up one of your attacks, and the like. Because things just cost a certain number of actions there is no juggling action vs bonus action vs movement. You do a thing and costs 1, 2, or 3 actions. Done. [*]Almost everything that has a limited use is either a spell that uses spell slots or a focus spell that uses focus points. The way these things work is consistent across character classes. There are no class features on their own resource individual resource schedules like Channel Divinity, Bardic Inspiration, Lay On Hands, Action Surge and the like. [*]Rules that have a similar effect almost always use the exact same mechanic. Proficiency works the same way for weapons, armor, skills, saves, Perception, Class DC, Spell DC, and spell attack. Every score can be used as a check or a DC. Any effect that counters a spell or ability works in exactly the same way. You learn a rule once and can apply it all over the place. [*]Interactions between abilities are clear thanks to traits. You do not have to guess if Mind Blank will impact casting a certain spell or if a creature's immunity or resistance applies to a given attack. [*]Where the game expects you to apply GM judgement it flat out tells you and gives you tools to help determine things like DCs. There is strong advice and examples on how to handle things like Knowledge checks. [/LIST] Here are the things that have me excited about the game as a GM [LIST] [*]Nothing is a sure thing. Blanket player side immunities are gone. Spells have been written so that there is less certainty over the outcome. Spells like Remove Disease now give you a chance to counter the Disease. Mind Blank, Nondetection, and True Seeing now give you a chance to overcome spells and other abilities. Thanks to degrees of success and failure there is now a broader range of outcomes for most spells. They have reinvigorated the drama of playing a spell caster. [*]The game has a strong focus on exploration. Things like licking your wounds after battle, repairing shields, recovering focus spells, choosing to search or sneak about, and the like are clearly defined parts of the game with implications on encounters. As someone who is very found of B/X this makes me inordinately happy. [*]Everything is very grounded in the fiction. Abilities describe how your character is doing the thing that they are doing. Anything that is supernatural is called out as such. Martial characters have no limited use abilities. The action economy is their only playground. Focus spells are explicitly supernatural. [*]Many character classes have features that ground them in the larger setting. If you are a champion you have a specific set of oaths and a connection to a patron deity that impacts your behavior with a specific set of edicts and anathema. Sorcerers blood magic connects them to the setting and there is a sidebar reminding players that their bloodline will impact the way people see them. Powerful rituals require secondary casters that require players to interact with the setting to achieve. Some even require that the secondary casters are followers of the same faith. [*]Items and spells have an indicated rarity with anything that is Uncommon or Rare assumed to be something that must be acquired through play. It also indicates that we cannot really assume every wizard has access to spells like Mind Blank and Teleport. [*]The monsters look like a lot of fun. They pretty much all have unique abilities and many have weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. In many ways monsters have become like puzzles to solve. Some like the hydra even require you to kill them in a specific way. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
My Biggest Concern for Pathfinder 2e
Top