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General Tabletop Discussion
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My biggest gripe with 5e design
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7853847" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Then we played vastly different versions of the game, and I daresay your DM must have neutered the monsters in AD&D if that was your experience. The lethality wasn't just a bad saving throw. HP totals were much lower. Even making a saving throw, a 10th level figher was the only class that could survive a dragon's breath weapon. Every other class, even making a save, would die. A 10th level magic user only had an average of 25 hit points. Most monsters faced at that level could kill them easily in one round. And that's not even factoring in the other things like spell interruption, failure to learn spells, etc that also made it much harder in AD&D. 10th level is above 4th or 5th level I'll note. (and I won't even mention things like rot grubs, green slimes, and a multitude of other things that could take out high level PCs without just a single failed save).</p><p></p><p>I'm not just talking about how you played or how I played, but how the game is actually designed. Looking at basic math here, with opinions and variances of preferences disregarded. Typical HP levels. Attack odds. Saving throw odds, rules that hurt PCs (like interruption), etc.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I"m not talking about just a saving throw. Did you not even read my OP? It's much more than that. It's knowing that a single breath weapon could take out your whole party, or that if the undead hits you, you lose levels, and then defeating those encounters because you did extra planning and got more creative other than just typical attack rolls. <em>That's </em>what makes it more heroic. Facing tougher odds and coming out on top, as opposed to facing mediocre odds and winning.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7853847, member: 15700"] Then we played vastly different versions of the game, and I daresay your DM must have neutered the monsters in AD&D if that was your experience. The lethality wasn't just a bad saving throw. HP totals were much lower. Even making a saving throw, a 10th level figher was the only class that could survive a dragon's breath weapon. Every other class, even making a save, would die. A 10th level magic user only had an average of 25 hit points. Most monsters faced at that level could kill them easily in one round. And that's not even factoring in the other things like spell interruption, failure to learn spells, etc that also made it much harder in AD&D. 10th level is above 4th or 5th level I'll note. (and I won't even mention things like rot grubs, green slimes, and a multitude of other things that could take out high level PCs without just a single failed save). I'm not just talking about how you played or how I played, but how the game is actually designed. Looking at basic math here, with opinions and variances of preferences disregarded. Typical HP levels. Attack odds. Saving throw odds, rules that hurt PCs (like interruption), etc. Again, I"m not talking about just a saving throw. Did you not even read my OP? It's much more than that. It's knowing that a single breath weapon could take out your whole party, or that if the undead hits you, you lose levels, and then defeating those encounters because you did extra planning and got more creative other than just typical attack rolls. [I]That's [/I]what makes it more heroic. Facing tougher odds and coming out on top, as opposed to facing mediocre odds and winning. [/QUOTE]
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