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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7854001" data-attributes="member: 15700">Again, if that’s your experience playing AD&D, then you were playing a vastly different game than everyone else. Multiple wishes by 10th level?  Sounds like you were playing Monty haul. While ways to improve ability scores existed in 1e, you didn’t get automatic +2 bonuses every 4 levels like in 5e.  They were super rare to get an ability score improved in 1e.  I can only think of three or four adventures that gave that opportunity, and almost always also gave you serious penalties if you chose the wrong option (like castle amber).  Magic items were random, so no, not everyone was going around with belts of giant strength and ioun stones and decks of many things that they always conveniently pulled the right cardsAnd yes, 25 hp was average. If that, since you also stopped getting CON Bonuses after 9th level and stopped rolling hit dice. You got 1 hp per level after 9th for MUs. Even fighters only got 3 per level. To say there is no difference between that and a 5e fighter makes me think you don’t have any idea what the rules in 1e actually are. You also had lower abilities in 1e because you didn’t have point buy or arrays to guarantee a good roll, humans didn’t all get bonuses to stats, and Demi humans had penalties to some stats to offset the bonuses they did get, but also were capped at certain levels. Monsters also routinely had better AC values than in 5e.Typical avg hp for a 10th level Party was 23 for MU, 33 for thief, 42 for cleric (maybe 52 if the cleric had a con bonus), and 81 for a fighter with a 16 CON (being generous). I wasn’t cherry picking. Even without level drains or save or die, it didn’t take much damage to wreck your day for most PCs. Worse at low levels, when a single attack from a goblin or orc could outright kill your PC, even if they were level 2 or 3 (since you didn’t start at max HP like 5e either). How many 2nd level wizards, or 1st level fighters could die from a single non critical attack by a goblin in 5e?  A housecat could kill a MU in 1e for Christ’s sake.  Also, hp were more valuable because you didn’t recover them nearly as much as you do in 5e. There were no hit dice to roll during short rests. There was no going back to max at every long rest. Also, no things like low level revivify.  You had a much lower pool of HP, and they had to last you much longer between recovery  sorry, you’re wrong. RAW, 1e was more dangerous to PCs than 5e. This isn’t uphill both ways nonsense. It’s objectively true by looking at the actual rules of the game, and something people accept as true because it’s so obvious.You can’t say that there was no difference, and also say the reason they got rid of all those horrible things was because people hated them. Those are contradictory positions.  You can’t deny a problem exists, and then say they fixed the problem because people wanted it.</blockquote>

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