My crack at Knowledge(Fantastic Beasts)

[EOL]

I'm thinking of introducing this into my campaign as a way for Players to accurately know how much their characters would know about some new beast they've encountered. I'm interested in feedback especially on the multipliers.

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Knowledge (Fantastic Beasts) (Int; Trained Only)

Description: This Skill allows characters to check to see if they know a monsters special abilities, strength's and weaknesses.

Check: The DC for this check is based on the CR of the monster plus a commonality modifier times a multipler based on the creatures type. The commonality modifier ranges from -5 to +5 with -5 being very common and +5 being very rare. Use the following table for the type multipliers:

Humanoids- x1
Monsterous Humanoids- x2
Giants- X1.5
Fey- x2
Animal- x0.5
Dire Animals- x1
Beasts- x1.5
Magical Beasts- x2
Shapechanger- x3
Construct- x2
Aberrations- x3
Undead- x2
Elemental- x2
Outsider- x3
Dragon- x1.5
Vermin- x1.5
Templated Creatures- add (x1) to base type

So for example if the character wanted to see what he knew about a Roper the DC would probably work out like this (CR-10 + 4 (really rare)) x2 Magical Beast = DC 28 so a mage (int of at least 20) of that level who had maxed his Knowledge skill would have just over a 50% chance of making it.

This is mostly useful for creatures the character has never encountered once they've fought something they probably have a pretty good idea of what it can do.

Retry: No. The check represents what the character knows, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn't let the character know something the character never learned in the first place.

 

[Avatar of the North]

lets see if i'm doing this correctly then

A Great Wyrm Gold Dragon (CR:26) would have a check of

31* x 1.5= DC:46.5

*: CR: 26 +5 for a being very rare (great wyrms aren't laying around everywhere in the campaign......atleast you as players should hope not, Evil DM laughing)

Now for an absolutely Absurd example (which will require epic level skill level checks )

An Shadow, Axiomatic, Half-Water elemental, Half-Celestial Gold Great Wyrm Dragon with 10 levels of the Shifter prestige class would be (CR: 26+1+2+2+1+10=Final CR:42). This would make the check be the following then?

47 x Creature type mod [x7]**=DC: 329

*: *[CR: 42 +5 for stupidly rare and non-existant creature]
** (Base of x3[shapeshifter or outsider]+4 for templates=final of x7)

 

[EOL]

lets see if i'm doing this correctly then

A Great Wyrm Gold Dragon (CR:26) would have a check of

31* x 1.5= DC:46.5

*: CR: 26 +5 for a being very rare (great wyrms aren't laying around everywhere in the campaign......atleast you as players should hope not, Evil DM laughing)

Now for an absolutely Absurd example (which will require epic level skill level checks )

An Shadow, Axiomatic, Half-Water elemental, Half-Celestial Gold Great Wyrm Dragon with 10 levels of the Shifter prestige class would be (CR: 26+1+2+2+1+10=Final CR:42). This would make the check be the following then?

47 x Creature type mod [x7]**=DC: 329

*: *[CR: 42 +5 for stupidly rare and non-existant creature]
** (Base of x3[shapeshifter or outsider]+4 for templates=final of x7)

Yeah, you did it correctly, as far as the DC 329 example, I guess what is said there is that the creature would be so far from anything the PC had ever encountered that it would be essentially impossible for the character to know it's abilites in six seconds of looking at it.

 

[War Golem]

Hey EOL,

I like this. I've had an unofficial Monster Knowledge skill in my game for a long time, but we never really decided on a specific mechanic for its use so it hasn't been used much.

I'm going to implement this system in my campaign and see how it goes.

Thanks.

 

[EOL]

Hey EOL,

I like this. I've had an unofficial Monster Knowledge skill in my game for a long time, but we never really decided on a specific mechanic for its use so it hasn't been used much.

I'm going to implement this system in my campaign and see how it goes.

Thanks.

I was in the same position I had the skill people were taking it, but everytime they wanted to use it, it was just a judgement call as to whether or not they got any useful information. In any event I'm glad you like it, let me know how it goes.

 

[War Golem]

Here's what one of my players had to say when I sent out an email announcing that we would be using this skill in my campaign henceforth:

"If you had an appropriate sister knowledge (Planes, 5ranks) would you get a synergy bonus on this skill when using against Outsiders or would the multiplier be reduced? Would any other synergy bonus be possible? Possibly nature skill when used against animal/Dire Animal/Beasts or Arcana skill against Magical Beasts/Shapechanger/Aberrations/Construct/Elemental would be useful. It seems that a nature priest would have a better chance just like a Mage would have a better chance against knowledge of magical creatures. These synergy bonuses seem like they would enhance the usefulness of other knowledge skills."

Any thoughts? EOL?

 

[EOL]

Here's what one of my players had to say when I sent out an email announcing that we would be using this skill in my campaign henceforth:

"If you had an appropriate sister knowledge (Planes, 5ranks) would you get a synergy bonus on this skill when using against Outsiders or would the multiplier be reduced? Would any other synergy bonus be possible? Possibly nature skill when used against animal/Dire Animal/Beasts or Arcana skill against Magical Beasts/Shapechanger/Aberrations/Construct/Elemental would be useful. It seems that a nature priest would have a better chance just like a Mage would have a better chance against knowledge of magical creatures. These synergy bonuses seem like they would enhance the usefulness of other knowledge skills."

Any thoughts? EOL?

That's a great idea, one that I hadn't thought of. A synergy bonus would be easy to add, but I like the idea of reducing the multiplier more.

This isn't set in stone by any means, but I think that what I'm going to do is if I, as the DM, see a skill that is related I'll let the player choose one (and only one) type related to that skill where they get a -0.5 to the multiplier. To a minimum of 0.5 if they have Knowledge(nature) or Wilderness Lore I would have them roll against that skill rather than use their KFB with animals.

This would represent a specialization in KFB not a specialization in the related knowledge skill. In other words just because a Mage with 5 ranks of Knowledge(Arcana) chooses constructs, doesn't mean his Knowledge(Arcana) checks are any better with respect to building constructs.

 

[War Golem]

To a minimum of 0.5 if they have Knowledge(nature) or Wilderness Lore I would have them roll against that skill rather than use their KFB with animals.

Hi EOL,

Can you give an example here; I'm not quite clear how you mean this to work.

Thanks.

 

[EOL]

Hi EOL,

Can you give an example here; I'm not quite clear how you mean this to work.

Thanks.

The reason I put the animal thing in is that if you reduce the animal multiplier by 0.5 it becomes 0, thus making the check an automatic success. So I was suggestiong that anyone who had a skill which might give them synergy with KFB on animals can probably use that same skill without KFB to identify ordinary animals.

As far as a more general example let's take your player with 5 ranks in Knowledge(Planes). You decide that's enough to give him a synergy bonus with outsiders. Forever after when you are determining the DC of the KFB check with respect to an outsider you would multiply the CR by 2.5 rather than 3.

Now he may also claim that Knowledge(planes) should give him a bonus with the Elemental type, but I think that more than one and the synergy bonus gets out of hand, so I would only allow one multiplier reduction per synergistic skill.

 

[twjensen]

sounds complicated

I think some good basic guidlines for what a reasonable DC is might be a more useful starting point. At what level could a character identify the powers of an orc assuming that this is the first orc the character has seen?

At what level does it become reasonable for a character who is really pushing knowledge: fantastic beasts to be able to engage in intelligent discourse on the best ways to deal with half-dragon bugbears? 10? 15? 20?

What is the base DC for just knowing the name of the thing?

For knowing the *true* name of the thing if there are several similar looking monsters?

For knowing the most notorious power of the thing?

For being able to just open the MM and quote it?

All these DCs are going to be dramatically different. Any thoughts?