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<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 8791656" data-attributes="member: 6786252"><p>Beyond the prepared spell thing (which only brings bard up to cleric/druid/wizard levels, not improves casters as a whole), I don't think bards really got strengthened. They're BI-starved with a subclass that wants to use them extensively, their ability to heal got heavily nerfed, and their spell list has issues. </p><p></p><p>While I'm not a fan of how they changed the rogue's wording, I can see how double sneak attack is an issue by making only one valid tactic of playing rogue - reigning in outliers is important, especiaslly when they just did the same to the power attack feats. The rogue does need to be buffed, but in general. </p><p></p><p>I suspect that thief lost Use an Item use because, well, basic subclass is basic. Same reason that Hunter is simpler now.</p><p></p><p>Ranger is... definitely improved in this version, and a bit on the strong side, but that's ironically because of the martial side, not the caster. Like... the cantrips are mostly lackluster (guidance nerfed, attack cantrips and Shil pointless) and the prepared spells are arguably on par with the loss of Tasha's Primeval Awareness and subclass spell lists. Its the Expertise and TWFing that really got buffed and make the Ranger stand out. </p><p></p><p>There's a very good argument that Bard and Ranger Expertise should be weaker than Rogue's. Or Rogue should be able to apply their Expertise to combat in more ways for that increase of combat wae're lacking. Or that every subclass have a way of proc-ing sneak attack with increased damage (hey, if paladins always get Channel Divinity for their first and aura for second, and bards get new BI use, there's nothing wrong with standardizing that.) It is odd that spellcasters with good exploration spells should be on par with Rogue exploration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 8791656, member: 6786252"] Beyond the prepared spell thing (which only brings bard up to cleric/druid/wizard levels, not improves casters as a whole), I don't think bards really got strengthened. They're BI-starved with a subclass that wants to use them extensively, their ability to heal got heavily nerfed, and their spell list has issues. While I'm not a fan of how they changed the rogue's wording, I can see how double sneak attack is an issue by making only one valid tactic of playing rogue - reigning in outliers is important, especiaslly when they just did the same to the power attack feats. The rogue does need to be buffed, but in general. I suspect that thief lost Use an Item use because, well, basic subclass is basic. Same reason that Hunter is simpler now. Ranger is... definitely improved in this version, and a bit on the strong side, but that's ironically because of the martial side, not the caster. Like... the cantrips are mostly lackluster (guidance nerfed, attack cantrips and Shil pointless) and the prepared spells are arguably on par with the loss of Tasha's Primeval Awareness and subclass spell lists. Its the Expertise and TWFing that really got buffed and make the Ranger stand out. There's a very good argument that Bard and Ranger Expertise should be weaker than Rogue's. Or Rogue should be able to apply their Expertise to combat in more ways for that increase of combat wae're lacking. Or that every subclass have a way of proc-ing sneak attack with increased damage (hey, if paladins always get Channel Divinity for their first and aura for second, and bards get new BI use, there's nothing wrong with standardizing that.) It is odd that spellcasters with good exploration spells should be on par with Rogue exploration. [/QUOTE]
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