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<blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 8792093" data-attributes="member: 6799660"><p>Fundamentally, I think they are pulling in the outliers. Be that for reason of simplicity, to make more than one built option viable (updated 2wf rules and working with bonus-action effects being a good example), or to just make the game a group of 10-year-olds picking up the game themselves* play more resemble what a group of dedicated hardcore rules-hounds play ('the rogue is effective because we've done the analysis and focused on how to get them an Opportunity attack every round' is good for a class that needs help, but honestly not how I'd balance a game option). </p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">*and this, honestly, is the group around which I think game rules need to be designed. Dedicated, adult, optimization-focused gamers are perfectly capable of shaping a game system to suit their needs. It is kids and people who just want to sit down and play that really need rules to support them (and not have options they don't know they shouldn't take). </span></p><p></p><p>I'm hoping we get warriors next, as I want to see whether the trend of bringing up the low end and bringing down the high end (/tricks kids or beer&pretzel players may not use). Here's hoping that non-polearm two-handed weapons and weapon&shield get some kind of boosts, and yes that fighters get something to compensate for no longer having some of their dirty tricks combos anymore (and c'mon another out-of-combat ability or two).</p><p></p><p></p><p>This is my main concern. Rogues got very little in return for turning off a strategy that kept them competitive (regardless as to whether I think it was actually beneficial to the game at large). </p><p></p><p>Regarding spellcasting, I think we will just have to see. I don't see the change in memorization as overly huge a shift in their favor. It's fine, but nothing drastic. The specifics of hiding and <em>invisibility </em>are... probably not as significant as they seem, but still kinda irksome (here I think is where feedback will have the most effect: changes to basic rules like crits and movement and hiding and spotting and generalized resolution -- my gut is telling me that's where they really don't know exactly what the audience wants and thus telling them is most important). </p><p></p><p>Much of it will have to wait until we see spell descriptions. If they modify the wishes, simulacra, become-a-MM-entry, gain-a-MM-entry-as-servant, unstoppable-except-specific-magic force structures, and a few other spells (and if they somehow don't realize these are big problems, this is another place to speak up and speak loudly), I'll be happy with a good 40% of this. The 'control the 5-minute workday' advice is another big chunk.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Willie the Duck, post: 8792093, member: 6799660"] Fundamentally, I think they are pulling in the outliers. Be that for reason of simplicity, to make more than one built option viable (updated 2wf rules and working with bonus-action effects being a good example), or to just make the game a group of 10-year-olds picking up the game themselves* play more resemble what a group of dedicated hardcore rules-hounds play ('the rogue is effective because we've done the analysis and focused on how to get them an Opportunity attack every round' is good for a class that needs help, but honestly not how I'd balance a game option). [SIZE=1]*and this, honestly, is the group around which I think game rules need to be designed. Dedicated, adult, optimization-focused gamers are perfectly capable of shaping a game system to suit their needs. It is kids and people who just want to sit down and play that really need rules to support them (and not have options they don't know they shouldn't take). [/SIZE] I'm hoping we get warriors next, as I want to see whether the trend of bringing up the low end and bringing down the high end (/tricks kids or beer&pretzel players may not use). Here's hoping that non-polearm two-handed weapons and weapon&shield get some kind of boosts, and yes that fighters get something to compensate for no longer having some of their dirty tricks combos anymore (and c'mon another out-of-combat ability or two). This is my main concern. Rogues got very little in return for turning off a strategy that kept them competitive (regardless as to whether I think it was actually beneficial to the game at large). Regarding spellcasting, I think we will just have to see. I don't see the change in memorization as overly huge a shift in their favor. It's fine, but nothing drastic. The specifics of hiding and [I]invisibility [/I]are... probably not as significant as they seem, but still kinda irksome (here I think is where feedback will have the most effect: changes to basic rules like crits and movement and hiding and spotting and generalized resolution -- my gut is telling me that's where they really don't know exactly what the audience wants and thus telling them is most important). Much of it will have to wait until we see spell descriptions. If they modify the wishes, simulacra, become-a-MM-entry, gain-a-MM-entry-as-servant, unstoppable-except-specific-magic force structures, and a few other spells (and if they somehow don't realize these are big problems, this is another place to speak up and speak loudly), I'll be happy with a good 40% of this. The 'control the 5-minute workday' advice is another big chunk. [/QUOTE]
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