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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5941090" data-attributes="member: 22779">Are you serious?  We kill everything in the dungeon, so therefore nothing remaining is worth anything?  The fact that we had to kill everything first apparently makes the treasure valueless for xp.Man, I don't even have to make points anymore, you guys are doing it perfectly well for me.Umm, no, you're the one saying bring the mules into the dungeon.  While the amateurs might do that, the professionals set up a nice camp a few miles away and bring the treasure to the mules.  But, hey, please continue.Yup, feel free to talk about how I don't use the rules, but, completely ignore the loyalty rules in the DMG.  That's a good method of discussion.  And, of course, I've just been told that many random encounters aren't actually combat in AD&D - many are actually non-combat encounters.  Yet, apparently, when the DM wants them to be, they're all 100% combat encounters.Week?  How long does it take you to foray into the dungeon.  You never come out?  You rest in the dungeon?  I keep getting told that that can never happen, you get killed that way.  So, you fall back and, oh look, there's a camp there.  Why are you gone so long?  Oh, that's right, in order to prove your point, you have to pretend that the players have the sense of a concussed badger.Yet... we're not out to screw the players are we?  They earned their Xp, yet, we're supposed to deny them the level.  Oh, yeah, that's not screwing the players AT ALL.I mean, quoting from the 1e DMG in an attempt to prove that you don't screw players over isn't perhaps the best place to look.  The advice in the 1e DMG is very, very antagonistic and creates a strongly adversarial role for the DM.  Don't believe me?  Reread the section on finding secret doors.But, hey, to each his own.  Feel free to keep telling me how you're not screwing over the players by arbitrarily deciding that loot isn't really loot, or that the dragon's treasure isn't actually worth any XP because you had to kill the dragon first, therefore, there's not actual challenge to getting that dragon's treasure, so, it must be worth zero xp.This does go a long way to explaining why people claim that AD&D advances so slowly.  I mean, if treasure acquired after defeating an enemy isn't worth any xp, yeah, that would totally slow down advancement.</blockquote>

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