My Difficulty Class by Tier Rules

[S'mon]

I key DCs off the Tier of the encounter/environment, which is often the same as PC level, but not always.

My DCs:

10: Easy Heroic task
15: Moderate Heroic task
20: Hard Heroic Task, Easy Paragon Task
25: Moderate Paragon Task
30: Hard Paragon Task, Easy Epic Task
35: Moderate Epic Task
40: Hard Epic Task, Easy Supra-Epic Task
45: Moderate Supra-Epic Task
50: Hard Supra-Epic Task

"Very Hard" = Hard +5. "Impossible" = Hard +10.

"Supra-Epic" is for environments and threats created by creatures over 30th level, eg Orcus. A task that was 'impossible for Orcus' or similar would typically be DC 60. Tasks impossible even for greater powers, such as breaking the chain that binds the Fenris Wolf, could be DC 70 or higher.

The DCs are roughly typical for PCs in the mid-point of the Tier, eg Level 5 Heroic PCs, Level 15 Paragon, Level 25 Epic. Towards the top of the Tier PCs will begin to encounter task DCs from the next highest tier, just as they begin to encounter monsters from that tier. So eg high Heroic Tier PCs adventuring in the dungeon of a mad Paragon wizard will be dealing with Paragon tier DCs. If the wizard is low-Paragon then most of the DCs will be Easy (20) or Moderate (25) for Paragon.

The great beauty of this table & this tier-based approach is that I can keep it in my head, I never need to look up the table in-play.

Any thoughts/comments?

 

[NexH]

The problems lies in what each difficulty class represents.

With the currently existing table, each difficulty class represents a certain fixed success chance under different assumptions:
"Easy" only assumes a starting associated stat of 10, and absolutely no attempt to become better at the skill in further levels. On the other hand, "Moderate" and "Hard" include things like paragon path bonus or item bonus, so they increase faster: the higher the level, the more varied and more powerful sources you can draw from to increase your bonus.

So, while easier to remember, a fixed rate of increase for the DCs (+1 per level in this case) is not realistic.

I would certainly like to have "very hard" and "impossible" DCs to add to the existing table, and also DCs for higher-than-epic tasks, but I fear there may not be possible to ideate an easy rule to calculate them.

 

[S'mon]

The problems lies in what each difficulty class represents.

With the currently existing table, each difficulty class represents a certain fixed success chance under different assumptions:
"Easy" only assumes a starting associated stat of 10, and absolutely no attempt to become better at the skill in further levels. On the other hand, "Moderate" and "Hard" include things like paragon path bonus or item bonus, so they increase faster: the higher the level, the more varied and more powerful sources you can draw from to increase your bonus.

So, while easier to remember, a fixed rate of increase for the DCs (+1 per level in this case) is not realistic.

My "Easy" means "Easy by Heroic Standards" and applies across the whole Tier, so obviously it is not a fixed chance for a particular PC; the numbers are similar-ish to the current table but the thinking behind them is different.

I'm not sure what you mean by "realistic" here.

 

[AeroDm]

I like the simplicity because I believe that simple tools are used often and used well whereas a more precise tool that goes unused is worthless. I'd present it in a table:

	       Heroic	Paragon	Epic	Supra-Epic
Easy	        10	20	30	40
Moderate	15	25	35	45
Hard	        20	30	40	50
Very hard	25	35	45	55
Impossible	30	40	50	60

While I like the simplicity, I'm not a huge fan of 4eE DCs. I think they are too high and serve to discourage non-specialists from trying things. I wrote a little article about it at my site, but it would work well with the underlying logic of your proposal. I'll think on it more; thanks!

 

[GreyLord]

I like the ease of it and think it scales relatively nicely with how you figure difficulty classes. It's more for the start of each tier from how I see it so a Hard Heroic Task is Hard for 1st levels, but more easy for the upper Heroic levels, but of course that is addressed with the Easy Paragon addendum.

Overall I like it.

 

[S'mon]

I like the ease of it and think it scales relatively nicely with how you figure difficulty classes. It's more for the start of each tier from how I see it so a Hard Heroic Task is Hard for 1st levels, but more easy for the upper Heroic levels, but of course that is addressed with the Easy Paragon addendum.

Overall I like it.

The numbers are doable at the start of the Tier, but should work fine at the mid-point. At the top of a Tier PCs will increasingly be facing threats from the first half of the next Tier up, eg 30th level PCs can expect to face medium supra-Epic threats (DC 45) and maybe one or two hard Supra-Epic (50).

My idea is that PCs should get some sense of things getting easier as they rise through a Tier, at the top of a Tier they're the Big Fish in the pond, but as they enter the next Tier they become small fish in a much bigger pond. This gives a sense of progression that 4e can often lack.

As you say, it's an "easy tool to use often", intended to be memorisable (you only really need 3 numbers 10-15-20 at the first half of Heroic), it makes it possible for me to assign plausible DCs on-the-fly, without having to check a table. And I'm not bound to these numbers exactly, eg there was a slightly-harder-than-easy task last night so I set DC 12.

 

[S'mon]

While I like the simplicity, I'm not a huge fan of 4eE DCs. I think they are too high and serve to discourage non-specialists from trying things.

I agree that too-high DCs can be a problem, but I found that a far bigger problem in 3e than 4e, thanks to 4e's +1/2 by level that everyone gets. And there's no reason why Paragon PCs shouldn't face Heroic tasks. I've tried to set numbers that are not too hard, eg an untrained, no mod 1st level PC who can take-10 can auto-succeed on an Easy Heroic task.