Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 4389999" data-attributes="member: 3586">Heh. Yeah, for the first session or so we thought that. Then we played some more...Friday night we were missing a couple of players - including the wizard - and the group were adventuring through the kobold cave in "The Mouths of Madness", updated to 4e of course.The group fell afoul of the kobold's pit trap and the cleric fell in. Then kobolds, in groups of four, would run around the corner and throw javelins at the party. The next round, they'd throw another set of javelins and run back out of sight again. The group managed to get the cleric out, but were taking some damage from the kobolds. (These were minions, btw).If they'd had the wizard, the wizard could have just tossed over a fireblast and taken most of the kobolds at once. However, the wizard wasn't there, and so they were reduced to making single attacks. All the bonus damage of the warlock and rogue were completely useless. After a few rounds, the fighter finally jumped over the pit and went cleaving the kobolds left and right. (The rogue had tried to jimmy it so it wouldn't collapse, but no luck).The rogue and warlock tried to follow the fighter, but rolled poorly (very poorly in the rogue's case, he needed a 3+ to jump the pit!) and fell into the pit. They managed to climb out and help the fighter take out the last of the tougher kobolds that had come to fight him.Slightly later, they came up against Charlie the Ogre and battled him. In this combat, the fighter was able to hold Charlie and stop him attacking the rest of the party, and the rogue finally came into his own as he moved into a flanking position and unleashed massive sneak attack damage on the Ogre. (The Ogre almost killed the fighter, in fact... one more point of damage and the blow would have killed him outright).The classes play differently, even at 1st level. We felt the lack of the wizard, as we felt the lack of the cleric the previous session (more on that below).I do agree that if you want the huge disparity of classes that you get in AD&D and C&C, especially with combat prowess being balanced against non-combat unprowess and vice versa, you'll be disappointed. The wizard does stuff all the time, not just the few "we win" moments of AD&D. As a result, the wizard isn't as strong with their actual effects, though they've still got an "we win" quality about them.So, if you continue with C&C in preference to 4e, I won't be surprised... there are a lot of good things to be said for the older-style systems.(Just another note; in my other campaign the wizard found himself separated from the rest of the group and surrounded by kobolds. This was terrible for him - he had no magic that worked at close range, and his hp and AC were very poor indeed... there are differences that come out in play!)Well, that session was the first session we'd had with an actual cleric (as opposed to a warlord or no leader at all)... boy, the cleric makes a difference. Healing surges are still limited in number. The cleric makes them more effective. When the fighter would normally heal 7 hp from a healing surge, the cleric was bumping that up to an average of 13 hp! (The warlord was about 10 hp). By the time the group had finished clearing out the kobolds and the ogre, the fighter had no healing surges left at all. Without the cleric, I'm sure they wouldn't had reached the ogre... possibly also had to retreat against the kobold leader.I don't really expect it will. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> My experience of the game is that being 1st level is still being very weak in comparison to the rest of the world - and, indeed, many a PC has been knocked unconscious and been close to death in my games so far. However, you really don't get the "one lucky blow and I'm dead" feel of AD&D. I don't really miss that at all. It's a different sort of challenge, I guess.Cheers!</blockquote>

Verification