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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4390815" data-attributes="member: 5834">That's because you don't understand the new paradigm. If you did, you would see they don't feel like 3E at all. 3E is very limited comparatively. You can still build a two weapon fighter or an effective sword and board player. That is the focus of the fighter in this game.But, that is not the paradigm...Classes no longer hold true in 4th edition in the same sense as they did in 3rd edition that is the part you don't seem to understand that takes a bit of play to pick up on. When you play a fighter, you are no longer just a fighter. You are in essence the heavy armored guy at the front of the battle trained to hold the line and be that guy that focuses attacks on you.Yes it is. It is called a ranger now. A light, highly mobile warrior that uses a bow and is more like a light special operations fighter. This is the new paradigm.When you think 3rd edition terms, you believe what you believe. But this is not 3rd edition. This is fourth edition where roles are very clearly defined and specialized according to what you want to do.If you want to play an "archery fighter" you play a ranger specialized in archery. The ranger is not a woodsman anymore, he is a more a light and mobile fighter with a couple of unique fighting styles and abilities. No it isn't. If you want to use a longsword, you make a ranger and you get Thievery as a bonus skill with a feat. That is the kind of customization you get with 4E.No longer is a rogue the only person able to search for traps. You can build all kinds of different characters that do different things in 4E.You can make a fighter good at searching for traps and fighting with a sword and shield. You can make a two weapon ranger with two longsowords who searches for traps and is basically a rogue who fights with two longswords. You can make a wizard that fights with a sword and is effective and combines with spells.If you include multi-classing, you can further customize a character.That's why I say character differentiation is even greater in 4E because in 3.5 E you were forced to be a rogue if you wanted to search for traps. You were forced to be a cleric if you wanted to heal. You were forced to be a ranger if you wanted to track.None of that is required in 4E. You can customize a character using the core classes and feats in a way that was much more difficult and forced multiclassing 3E. If you full understood the extent to which you can customize in 4E, you would see that it isn't arguable that you can make more unique 4E characters at earlier levels than you could in 3E. I know 3E as good as anyone having played from 1st to 18th or so level in several campaigns. I can't claim to know the epic rules, but I know what you can do with a variety of characters. I know with certanty the customization options for differentiating your characters are far greater in 4E than they ever were in 3E.You want to play a game like that, you play GURPs. Nobody starts the game and plays until 3rd or 4th level and starts over. So that's not much a point. You start off so weak you can die with one hit from an orc, and end up where a thousand orcs couldn't touch you. That's a real gritty simulation there. Yeah, i'm buying that. In 4E orcs can be a serious threat at all levels. That feels more like say a Lord of the Rings movies where the main characters feared a horde of orcs. In 3E a horde of orcs was a joke to high level characters. It is much more gritty and feels more like a book than 3E which turned absurd past level 10 unless you were willing to load that orc horde down with magic items they would not have.I like that 4E starts you at a certain level of power and maintains that level of power much like GURPS. You almost always have about the same chance of dying in 4E to monsters of equivalent skill and level. More like GURPS or other more advanced systems.The whole game scales better from the early levels on up.It allows for a great deal of customimization right from the beginning. I like that.If you accept the new class paradigm as I have done, you see that it is more differentiated and customizable than 3E. You sound like a person that hasn't delved too deeply into the 4E rules.</blockquote>

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