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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7554601" data-attributes="member: 6880599">So here is the thing. your problem is not that Dex is good. It's not a problem for players to build with tactical optimized characters as you said the player is a min-max player.... so your punishing them for having a play style that is not "Narrative above all!" however, playing the "skilled hero" is a character arch architype. There are 3 ways you can fix this without homebrew.1. Adjust your and the players prospective. I know this is not what your asking and please understand I don't mean it personal but to say your homebrew is targeting a symptom like cough medicine when you have the flew. It might stop the issue directly in front of you but its not curing your "Flu" this is simple but common fix for the actual problem though it will take time to adjust. A player wanting to be good at something as a hero in an RPG is well... to be expected. Your not playing the commoner NPCs of the story. That said, there is a big difference between min-max/optimizer and a power gamer. A min-max/optimizer is trying to make the most of their character to be as heroic as they can without waste which means they have mins you can use for story telling hooks. Being min-max/optimizer does not mean their characters can't have good back stories and narrative. Make sure that they have a back story and all class features like languages are tied into it, not just selections. If you require narrative support for those choices it gets in their mind and will often change their approach. If they don't and they find a justification they like then they have the narrative you want. That's win or win. However, if you have a power gamer (usually damage) trying to so good they steal the show from everyone else that can be a problem. I find one power game is not that big a deal but if you have two power gamers targeting the same skill (Damage per round (stealing kills), Face (stealing conversation narrative from other player story), or skill junkies taking all the skill so no other player has a skill that matters it becomes a problem. At that point no amount of homebrew will fix the issue. You need to talk to the player. They need to explain that each player deserves a roll in the party and a chance to shine and when another player is built for a function they need to step back. I also find party planning helps this a lot. If you ask for party roles instead of party classes, then you don't end up with a ranger and a rogue fighting to open all the doors you instead get ranger who is the survival guide in the woods, a rogue thief who is an expert in locks, disarming traps, and sneaking in, with a wizard who is skilled at investigating for hidden traps and secret doors but who differs to the rogue to disable them.2. Don't make something mechanically suck so they don't choose it, make something mechanically good so they do. You want it for narrative so this might seem counter intuitive but the mechanical part of the game is not a throw away its their to support the Narrative. Your obviously aware of that or you would not be "nerfing" dexterity to convince players to use strength. Its not enough to say your strong you need to mechanical support that so players can use it narratively. Strength is useful. Why do players not want something useful? Do you use encumbrance or variant encumbrance? Encumbrance is a standard rule but if your hand waving it then players are carrying mountains on their backs with no issue. This makes strength less important where variant encumbrance makes strength more important. How often do you hand wave or call strength checks? I your calling dexterity checks all the time for stealth, thieves tools, slight of hand, and acrobatics but never calling for strength checks then what value does strength have? Even if you nerf Dex it will still be better than strength because you don't use it. So use it more... you can use any stat for a skill check.... disarm trap might sometimes be thieve tools (strength) check, maybe the door is not locked … its just stuck. Are you using the "shove action" it is a standard rule. Have an NPC push a character down with shove gaining advantage on attacks, have an NPC grapple PC reducing movement to 0, these actions require strength to use even though they can be avoided with dex athletics players (which will mean your not sticking it to your players if you suddenly introduce this) will get knocked down and grappled beaten once in a while with all the other NPCs in 5ft attacking one target with advantage when it takes breaking the grapple to stand back up. 3. So what Narrative reason are you giving them for strength? Maybe when you have a big strong NPC or PC trying to role play an attempt to intimidate are you using intimidate(Charisma) or … intimidate(strength)? By RAW you can substitute the attribute when rolling skill checks when appropriate. You can have moments when strength is recognized by mechanics, and you can have call out visible strength in as a narrative tool. If you have story hooks for being asked to fight have them over looked for being a bunch of skinny week guys and if they have a strong player in the party have mercenaries always assume that player is the leader and ignore the other puny party members. Perception is key. A skinny 8 strength player might have a belt of Storm Giant strength but if you don't know what that is or does they just look skinny and week despite the 27 strength override. My point primarily is before your "fix dex" consider that it be that at your table Strength is weak or even useless. So no matter how much you nerf dex, your not going to convince them to take strength because its already way worse. You will not make get players to take strength unless its narratively significant and mechanically supported which you as GM control. I see a lot of people ignoring encumbrance and hand waving gear tracking because they don't think it is interesting in narrative then complaining because their PCs who can carry mountains with an 8 strength don't value the stat because narratively it doesn't matter. They don't have to decide what they can take because they can only carry so much and even though they are weak dex skeletons their is not story narrative downfall of being weak or benefit from being strong.</blockquote>

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