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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7555244" data-attributes="member: 6880599">That is right. So what if we just say strength concepts are not viable under this rule set... its the same argument right?A monk in light armor using strength is a fighter... you pretty much just removed the class, which is not very different from disallowing them. Ultimately, I just don't think limiting players it the fix for the OPS problems. I think they will shift not go away. You want them to try different things give them carrots not sticks or you will most likely just create hate and discontent at your table. The OPS issue is not the use of dex, its the over use of dex because of &quot;lack of narrative&quot;. But isn't that like the over use of charisma by sorcerer, warlock, or faces? Are they not guilty of the same thing? The OP did not state any reason or impact on the game other than players like the concept. Even if it is min/max players what problem is it causing that needs to be fixed? Why is one stat dex character not &quot;narrative&quot; but a one stat strength character is? The only significant difference is range and our of combat use but the casters can do ranged and melee as pointed out with my character and many spell can mimic skill. what is it that makes an elf finesse fighters worse than a wizard using greater invisible, shield, shocking grasp, firebolt and the warcaster feat with only the max Intellect stat?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7555244, member: 6880599"] That is right. So what if we just say strength concepts are not viable under this rule set... its the same argument right? A monk in light armor using strength is a fighter... you pretty much just removed the class, which is not very different from disallowing them. Ultimately, I just don't think limiting players it the fix for the OPS problems. I think they will shift not go away. You want them to try different things give them carrots not sticks or you will most likely just create hate and discontent at your table. The OPS issue is not the use of dex, its the over use of dex because of "lack of narrative". But isn't that like the over use of charisma by sorcerer, warlock, or faces? Are they not guilty of the same thing? The OP did not state any reason or impact on the game other than players like the concept. Even if it is min/max players what problem is it causing that needs to be fixed? Why is one stat dex character not "narrative" but a one stat strength character is? The only significant difference is range and our of combat use but the casters can do ranged and melee as pointed out with my character and many spell can mimic skill. what is it that makes an elf finesse fighters worse than a wizard using greater invisible, shield, shocking grasp, firebolt and the warcaster feat with only the max Intellect stat? [/QUOTE]

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