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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7555459" data-attributes="member: 6787503">To clarify, &quot;they&quot; here refers back to monks and rogues. It doesn't force monks to have STR for melee. They have Martial Arts which allows them to use DEX for their melee attacks. They are in no way dependent on finesse. As for rogues, this would make ranged weapons more optimal for them than melee weapons, as it would for any DEX based fighters wanting to specialize in ranged weapons. The point is you would have to choose between being good at melee or good at ranged. You can no longer have both. I don't really get the assumption you seem to be making that every character needs to be good at melee. STR fighters already have to deal with being non-optimal with ranged weapons. The idea with removing finesse is to level the field so playing a DEX fighter isn't always the go-to choice. Where are the party's melee fighters while this is happening? On the other hand, an all-archer party going into a dungeon should expect this sort of outcome and would presumably be betting on avoiding it through stealth.It isn't different. It just isn't the problem about which the OP is complaining. Optimizers are going to optimize because that's part of what makes the game fun for them. I have no idea what the OP's games are like, but it seems with the OP's group's current play-style that DEX fighters are more optimal than the alternative. Rather than try to change that play-style, my suggestion is a simple mechanical alteration to increase the diversity of optimal choices for fighters. I'm sure there are other, more elegant solutions.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7555459, member: 6787503"] To clarify, "they" here refers back to monks and rogues. It doesn't force monks to have STR for melee. They have Martial Arts which allows them to use DEX for their melee attacks. They are in no way dependent on finesse. As for rogues, this would make ranged weapons more optimal for them than melee weapons, as it would for any DEX based fighters wanting to specialize in ranged weapons. The point is you would have to choose between being good at melee or good at ranged. You can no longer have both. I don't really get the assumption you seem to be making that every character needs to be good at melee. STR fighters already have to deal with being non-optimal with ranged weapons. The idea with removing finesse is to level the field so playing a DEX fighter isn't always the go-to choice. Where are the party's melee fighters while this is happening? On the other hand, an all-archer party going into a dungeon should expect this sort of outcome and would presumably be betting on avoiding it through stealth. It isn't different. It just isn't the problem about which the OP is complaining. Optimizers are going to optimize because that's part of what makes the game fun for them. I have no idea what the OP's games are like, but it seems with the OP's group's current play-style that DEX fighters are more optimal than the alternative. Rather than try to change that play-style, my suggestion is a simple mechanical alteration to increase the diversity of optimal choices for fighters. I'm sure there are other, more elegant solutions. [/QUOTE]

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