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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7555616" data-attributes="member: 6880599">That was intended as a joke to show that the argument swings both ways so the perspective evil dex would not exist if it was your only melee option the same as if strength was the only melee options. Hard to read it sub text, but I don't really want to get rid of strength as an option... I mean technically you could remove strength and dexterity and replace them with "martial combat skill" and simplify the problem then players being dex or strength is just how they describe how they fight. My point is dex and strength are more style choices than one being better than the other. When the 2d6 Greatsword Knight (fighter) swings 5 times at the "Samerai" Kensal monk who responds 4 attackes of 1d10, then the "Ninja" rogue jumps in attacking with once with a 11d6 stab to the back... they seem pretty well balanced with often around 20AC each. So why does dexterity get a bad rap? I believe its perception issue. We currently have 2 rogues, a Rogue/monk, and a bard who sometimes fights in dex melee fights, I am a Warlock scout how uses CHA for melee and ranged, and we have a strength based Paladin. The paladin is way more powerful optimized by pure accident despite him owning everything and my warlock having kill everyone but the paladin and mon in battle royal one shot we did... we did not start with 3 rogues in our group, we had instead we had 2 strength fighters and wizard. Those PC died. I was already filling the rogue spot. We got a new player and they built new PCs and went that way. I asked why, and they all wanted to be sneaky one assassin, one a thief, the rogue/monk wants to play a "ninja", the bard just wanted to be a wizard again but thought it too cheesy to go wizard to wizard so he went arcane fighter full caster so it more of a stealthy melee wizard. I am still the scout as a warlock. The gym still complains about me being max/min when our rogue thief is FAR MORE max/min than I am and duplicated a lot of my skill making me redundant... no one took rogue because its was optimal, in fact most of the builds are based around the idea of the second rogue attribute. The assassin, is a face always trying to criminal stuff and explain his way through. The "ninja" is wisdom based with high perception and shadow magic trying to read people with incite and find their secrets while keep his own, the thief is basically a sell sword scout and is kind of trying to push me out because the player loves being the one that searches all the door for traps, so I keep watch and scout outside but he clears dungeons as I guard from the back with eldritch blast cover.It is high a high dex group, but not for max/min optimization but narrative flavor. The Paladin who is optimized and DISTROYES everything ...no one complains about. To me a monk is a dex based fighter in robes. When you put them in armor they become a fighter. When you make them strength the just become a barfighter brawler who will likely use the same gear as any other fighter. It is conceptually a fighter subclass at that point and the biggest part of what makes the monk different from fighters is gone. The same for putting armor on Barbarians.Maybe you feel different but I have no interest in reskinning fighters for all martial rolls. We start doing that then we only need 2 classes. Fighter and Caster with everything else being subclasses. I prefer greater variety.</blockquote>

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