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<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7555779" data-attributes="member: 6880599">agreed.I mean, I played an awesome duel wielding ranger in 3.5 so ya that was a think but also even in red box &quot;Elf&quot; was a thing sure stats were different but the depiction was defiantly not elfs can fight in melee the must only use bows because they are soooo weak. nope. Sure 5e has defiantly made it better but I mean it is better. So reverting to old designs that aren't as good as an example of we should do in 5e seems confused and backwards. 5e might not be perfect but it has been extremely well received because they have learned a lot over the years and used it to improve the game immensely. If you disagree with that... why are you playing 5e instead of earlier editions? The problem with the dex fighter is not the dex. Its the perception that everyone playing a rogue is playing because they what to optimize when it might just be they are interested in playing Robin Hood than playing the mountain clanking around in full plate. Sure there are more dex fighters in general but that's not 0 strength fighters and as I have pointed out it has a lot to do with GMs under valuing strength over skill in role play and players following their GMs example. When you make strength matter by using the rules that exist instead of hand waving them, you see more players using strength because you give them a chance to feel strong. Why would I want to play strong character when I look over and see the dex character carrying the cart on his back effortlessly and easily unlocking doors I can't knock down because I never even get a roll? If I do knock the door down its just,&quot;okay after a bit you manage to knock the door down&quot; with no ceremony to it but no one hand waves dexterity checks for some reason. I want to roll when I play D&amp;D. Hand waving is very often a sign of the GM being board or worrying the players not rolling are. I usually don't mind watch other players stories.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7555779, member: 6880599"] agreed. I mean, I played an awesome duel wielding ranger in 3.5 so ya that was a think but also even in red box "Elf" was a thing sure stats were different but the depiction was defiantly not elfs can fight in melee the must only use bows because they are soooo weak. nope. Sure 5e has defiantly made it better but I mean it is better. So reverting to old designs that aren't as good as an example of we should do in 5e seems confused and backwards. 5e might not be perfect but it has been extremely well received because they have learned a lot over the years and used it to improve the game immensely. If you disagree with that... why are you playing 5e instead of earlier editions? The problem with the dex fighter is not the dex. Its the perception that everyone playing a rogue is playing because they what to optimize when it might just be they are interested in playing Robin Hood than playing the mountain clanking around in full plate. Sure there are more dex fighters in general but that's not 0 strength fighters and as I have pointed out it has a lot to do with GMs under valuing strength over skill in role play and players following their GMs example. When you make strength matter by using the rules that exist instead of hand waving them, you see more players using strength because you give them a chance to feel strong. Why would I want to play strong character when I look over and see the dex character carrying the cart on his back effortlessly and easily unlocking doors I can't knock down because I never even get a roll? If I do knock the door down its just,"okay after a bit you manage to knock the door down" with no ceremony to it but no one hand waves dexterity checks for some reason. I want to roll when I play D&D. Hand waving is very often a sign of the GM being board or worrying the players not rolling are. I usually don't mind watch other players stories. [/QUOTE]

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