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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 3436891" data-attributes="member: 5122">A few thoughts:First, an ogre is only &quot;overpowered&quot; if it's encountered at melee range or if it gets a big jump on initiative.&nbsp; Neither is very likely.&nbsp; Before it gets a swing, smart players should have damaged or impaired it significantly: tanglefoot bag, command, color spray, or just plain smack.&nbsp; 29 HP at an AC of 16 is not hard to get through for a 3rd-level group.&nbsp; Hell, at +8 on attacks, it should be missing the meat-shields and if an attack does land, it'll take an above-average damage roll to take the meat-shield down.Second, it's true that cockatrices and similar low-CR creatures with save-or-&quot;die&quot; abilities can be problematic, but only if the DM doesn't plan for them.&nbsp; Are they guard creatures?&nbsp; Well, maybe their master keeps some sort of scroll or oil around to de-stone victims.&nbsp; After all, you can't get answers from a statue.&nbsp; Are they in a city?&nbsp; Surely there's a mid-level wizard or cleric who'd love to have a group of adventurers indebted to him.For all that people say they hate save-or-die effects, one thing they are is exciting.&nbsp; It's a shame to take that excitement out of one's bag of DMing tricks, especially when the consequences can so easily be illusory (in a non-transparent to the players way).Creatures that I think are crazy powerful are the mid-level mountain-of-HP-swallow-you-whole monsters.&nbsp; Stuff like the Tyrannosaurus Rex and the dire shark.&nbsp; Crazy.&nbsp; (I've killed two PCs in two sessions with those creatures, and I was seriously holding back with the dire shark.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 3436891, member: 5122"] A few thoughts: First, an ogre is only "overpowered" if it's encountered at melee range or if it gets a big jump on initiative. Neither is very likely. Before it gets a swing, smart players should have damaged or impaired it significantly: tanglefoot bag, [i]command[/i], [i]color spray[/i], or just plain smack. 29 HP at an AC of 16 is not hard to get through for a 3rd-level group. Hell, at +8 on attacks, it should be missing the meat-shields and if an attack does land, it'll take an above-average damage roll to take the meat-shield down. Second, it's true that cockatrices and similar low-CR creatures with save-or-"die" abilities can be problematic, but only if the DM doesn't plan for them. Are they guard creatures? Well, maybe their master keeps some sort of scroll or oil around to de-stone victims. After all, you can't get answers from a statue. Are they in a city? Surely there's a mid-level wizard or cleric who'd love to have a group of adventurers indebted to him. For all that people say they hate save-or-die effects, one thing they are is exciting. It's a shame to take that excitement out of one's bag of DMing tricks, especially when the consequences can so easily be illusory (in a non-transparent to the players way). Creatures that I think are crazy powerful are the mid-level mountain-of-HP-swallow-you-whole monsters. Stuff like the Tyrannosaurus Rex and the dire shark. Crazy. (I've killed two PCs in two sessions with those creatures, and I was seriously holding back with the dire shark.) [/QUOTE]

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