Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
My first taste of 4e, and what it means for 5e.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6011313" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>Yes, but the presentation is <em>frightful</em>.</p><p></p><p>I do think 4th Ed would have worked a <em>lot</em> better if there was a paragraph of text or two for most classes explaining what the mechanics represented and how to play them well, and then a further paragraph for the pregens explaining their at wills.</p><p></p><p>Something like.</p><p></p><p>"Rogue: As a rogue you are fast, tricksy, and a master at finding the unexpected angle. In game terms this is represented by Sneak Attack - when you have Combat Advantage you do +2d6 damage (on your first hit of the turn). In practice this means that the average damage output from a rogue with combat advantage will be almost twice that of a rogue without, so a rogue in skilled hands will be attempting to gain sneak attack every turn. Sources of Comabt Advantage include flanking, attacking while starting the action <em>hidden</em>, or attacking an enemy who has been either dazed or knocked <em>prone</em> by one of your allies (prone, of course, only gives you extra opportunities in melee)."</p><p></p><p>"Luxor the Rogue. Luxor the Rogue is sneaky, able to appear from unexpected angles, and when given an easy opportunity instead of having to make one, he is very good at exploiting it. Because of this Luxor's At Wills are <em>Deft Strike</em> and <em>Sly Flourish</em>. Deft Strike represents Luxor's ability to appear from unexpected angles and can either be used to move you into flanking, or have you leap out of cover and throw a dagger without losing the hidden status until the end of the action (so you can either hide behind something with your move action and then <em>Deft Strike </em>or <em>Deft Strike</em> and then hide). <em>Sly Flourish</em> represents Luxor's ability to fully exploit an existing situation, and increases his damage by 2. This, of course, is not as useful as a full Sneak Attack but means that if Luxor already has combat advantage (for instance from Flanking) he does yet more damage, and if you can see no way to gain combat advantage it's not as much of a loss."</p><p></p><p>Alternatively for another class:</p><p></p><p>"Fighter: As a fighter you are a master of any enemies who get into sword range and control the battlefield around you. This is represented by three abilities: <em>Marking</em>, <em>Combat Challenge</em>, and <em>Combat Superiority</em>. Marking represents that you are as good at getting in the enemy's face as a star lineman, point guard, or defender, so they have a -2 to any attempts to ignore you. <em>Combat Challenge</em> is a big part of the reason they get this -2; you as a fighter are <em>extremely</em> alert and if a marked target takes their eye off you even to try to sneak away or attack someone else, you see this momentary lapse in concentration and get an opportunity, once per round, to cut them open (something that would make a lineman's job <em>much</em> easier). And <em>Combat Superiority</em> represents your superior ability with opportunities normal people would see, giving you a to hit bonus and meaning that the enemy can either stop or run all the way up your sword."</p><p></p><p>"Bes the Fighter: As Bes, you may be small but you are aggressive and powerful. Your At Will attacks are <em>Tide of Iron</em> and <em>Cleave</em>. <em>Tide of Iron </em>represents your driving aggression, allowing you to force even much bigger enemies back as you advance under cover of your shield - or beating the brains out of anyone stupid enough to stay still and unlucky enough not to parry. <em>Cleave</em> also represents your brute force and aggressive approach, in this case your ability to deal with superior numbers that would bog a lesser person down - when you hit one foe you can work against a second, doing a much lower (but still significant) amount of damage to them - or simply killing a minion."</p><p></p><p>Those are just dashed off - and are the sort of thing I see when designing a 4e character (and therefore am <em>incredibly</em> unsympathetic to the idea 4e lacks flavour). But they aren't actually presented explicitely - instead 4e makes you figure out how things fit together.</p><p></p><p>And I agree that Healing Surges is a really crummy name. Something like "Endurance points" would be much better.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6011313, member: 87792"] Yes, but the presentation is [I]frightful[/I]. I do think 4th Ed would have worked a [I]lot[/I] better if there was a paragraph of text or two for most classes explaining what the mechanics represented and how to play them well, and then a further paragraph for the pregens explaining their at wills. Something like. "Rogue: As a rogue you are fast, tricksy, and a master at finding the unexpected angle. In game terms this is represented by Sneak Attack - when you have Combat Advantage you do +2d6 damage (on your first hit of the turn). In practice this means that the average damage output from a rogue with combat advantage will be almost twice that of a rogue without, so a rogue in skilled hands will be attempting to gain sneak attack every turn. Sources of Comabt Advantage include flanking, attacking while starting the action [I]hidden[/I], or attacking an enemy who has been either dazed or knocked [I]prone[/I] by one of your allies (prone, of course, only gives you extra opportunities in melee)." "Luxor the Rogue. Luxor the Rogue is sneaky, able to appear from unexpected angles, and when given an easy opportunity instead of having to make one, he is very good at exploiting it. Because of this Luxor's At Wills are [I]Deft Strike[/I] and [I]Sly Flourish[/I]. Deft Strike represents Luxor's ability to appear from unexpected angles and can either be used to move you into flanking, or have you leap out of cover and throw a dagger without losing the hidden status until the end of the action (so you can either hide behind something with your move action and then [I]Deft Strike [/I]or [I]Deft Strike[/I] and then hide). [I]Sly Flourish[/I] represents Luxor's ability to fully exploit an existing situation, and increases his damage by 2. This, of course, is not as useful as a full Sneak Attack but means that if Luxor already has combat advantage (for instance from Flanking) he does yet more damage, and if you can see no way to gain combat advantage it's not as much of a loss." Alternatively for another class: "Fighter: As a fighter you are a master of any enemies who get into sword range and control the battlefield around you. This is represented by three abilities: [I]Marking[/I], [I]Combat Challenge[/I], and [I]Combat Superiority[/I]. Marking represents that you are as good at getting in the enemy's face as a star lineman, point guard, or defender, so they have a -2 to any attempts to ignore you. [I]Combat Challenge[/I] is a big part of the reason they get this -2; you as a fighter are [I]extremely[/I] alert and if a marked target takes their eye off you even to try to sneak away or attack someone else, you see this momentary lapse in concentration and get an opportunity, once per round, to cut them open (something that would make a lineman's job [I]much[/I] easier). And [I]Combat Superiority[/I] represents your superior ability with opportunities normal people would see, giving you a to hit bonus and meaning that the enemy can either stop or run all the way up your sword." "Bes the Fighter: As Bes, you may be small but you are aggressive and powerful. Your At Will attacks are [I]Tide of Iron[/I] and [I]Cleave[/I]. [I]Tide of Iron [/I]represents your driving aggression, allowing you to force even much bigger enemies back as you advance under cover of your shield - or beating the brains out of anyone stupid enough to stay still and unlucky enough not to parry. [I]Cleave[/I] also represents your brute force and aggressive approach, in this case your ability to deal with superior numbers that would bog a lesser person down - when you hit one foe you can work against a second, doing a much lower (but still significant) amount of damage to them - or simply killing a minion." Those are just dashed off - and are the sort of thing I see when designing a 4e character (and therefore am [I]incredibly[/I] unsympathetic to the idea 4e lacks flavour). But they aren't actually presented explicitely - instead 4e makes you figure out how things fit together. And I agree that Healing Surges is a really crummy name. Something like "Endurance points" would be much better. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
D&D Older Editions
My first taste of 4e, and what it means for 5e.
Top