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My first taste of 4e, and what it means for 5e.
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<blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 6011369" data-attributes="member: 336"><p>If you took anything as a thinly veiled insult you are reading way too much into the post. You mentioned it seemed complicated to you, so I agreed that it might be, if you look at it that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have remained civil. You seem to be taking it differently, and I can't really help that. I meant exactly what I said, if someone wants to make things way more complicated than they need to be, there is nothing that can uncomplicate that issue. Nothing I said in my post was meant to be uncivil to you, or the OP.</p><p></p><p>With that said I'll give an example since you asked for one.</p><p></p><p>The first thing about teaching "rules" is that the players don't need a brain dump at the beginning of a game session. All the rules can be shown at "runtime" when they become relevant. The first thing I tell the players is that this is a roleplaying game, and a game of imagination. If they can imagine their character doing something, then they can attempt to do it simply by stating what they want to do. Let "me", as the DM, worry about the mechanical "how-to".</p><p></p><p>Then I give them a very quick rundown of their pregen sheet. I assume that a player that brings his own sheet filled out has the basic knowledge to find things on their sheet, but I ask them anyway. Show them ALL, generally how to read their character sheet. Show them the location of their defenses, their skills, their speed and initiative, and the color and frequency for their at-will, encounter, and daily powers. This whole introduction usually takes less than 2 minutes at the table.</p><p></p><p>If we are using pregens I have already familiarized myself with that particular pregen. So for example if I provide a sheet with an avenger class, I should know about the oath, and how it works. But if I don't provide that as a sheet I don't need that. Over time I've become more and more acquainted with each class but I assume that is the same with all DMs. They start green, and over time grow more familiar with the classes. Just like the players. </p><p></p><p>So when we start the game runs as it would normally run, I provide the situation, being the eyes, ears and general senses of the characters, and ask the players what they want to do. If there is an actual mechanical resolution to what the player wants to do, I adjudicate it and tell the player what he needs to do to attempt what he wants. I also tell him if what he is attempting is easy, average, or difficult. Though I don't give them actual target numbers. I'm giving the player the amount of information that his character would have to make an "informed" decision. If they are using skills I explain the basic d20 mechanic of roll+mod.</p><p></p><p>When it comes to combat I'll set up the situation and then call for initiative. I'll explain that they roll a d20, add the initiative modifier, and that is their initiative. Everyone acts in that order. I gather initiative, and I usually ask which character they are using and note it so that I have it in front of me for reference. We start combat.</p><p></p><p>Got to the highest initiative, ask the player what he would want to do and which of the pregens he is using if I didn't ask this before. At that time I explain to ALL the players that during a combat they have a "standard, move, minor" + an action point and explain how that works. Since I'm already familiar with the pregens I let him know what possible actions would be beneficial to him "tactically". If it's a character that is not a pregen I usually know by their class what they can possibly do at 1st level, if not it take 10 seconds for me to look at their powers and determine what would be workable for their role in the current situation.</p><p></p><p>The player decides what to do, I adjudicate, he rolls, and we move on. If there are environmental things that they could use, braziers, etc. I show it to them and describe them. When it's the monsters turn I look at their abilities, and tactics if noted on the encounter. Select what to do, roll, hit or miss, and move on. If there are environmental things that I mentioned that both players and monsters can use I show the players by using it, if possible. As combat advantage becomes available, I explain it, specially to a rogue, or thief; a quarry the same way, a curse is no different, a mark in the same manner, etc. Only make mechanics relevant when they're actually relevant.</p><p></p><p>The point is that it's easier to explain to the entire table how combat works by only concentrating on the relevant pieces for each character at each slice of time. As combat progresses, I have to do that less, and less as the players get accustomed to their characters. This takes no more time than what it takes for me to look at the monster attacks and decide what to use. After one or two turns the players have gotten the hang, and usually one or two will start helping the others.</p><p></p><p>The game doesn't come to a screeching halt, because unlike a player I don't have to have analysis paralysis. I recommend an option, let the player decide, and move on. I explain the options as they become relevant. If a player is playing a thief, I explain to him how to gain combat advantage, but at the same time I'm explaining it to all players. If I see someone seriously hurt, I remind the leaders of things they can do. When a power is used that has ongoing damage, or a condition I explain it at that time, and note it on the initiative sheet. When a player's initiative comes up I remind him of the damage, it's already on my sheet, and as he finishes his turn I have him make the save if it's required.</p><p></p><p>My role as DM is to teach them and make it easy for them to decide. Not to give them so much information that they haven't got a clue of what would be beneficial.</p><p></p><p>When someone reads this they might think that this is an overwhelming amount of work. The truth is that it is so simple that it's almost trivial.</p><p></p><p>I hope that example makes sense, and answers your question.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="D'karr, post: 6011369, member: 336"] If you took anything as a thinly veiled insult you are reading way too much into the post. You mentioned it seemed complicated to you, so I agreed that it might be, if you look at it that way. I have remained civil. You seem to be taking it differently, and I can't really help that. I meant exactly what I said, if someone wants to make things way more complicated than they need to be, there is nothing that can uncomplicate that issue. Nothing I said in my post was meant to be uncivil to you, or the OP. With that said I'll give an example since you asked for one. The first thing about teaching "rules" is that the players don't need a brain dump at the beginning of a game session. All the rules can be shown at "runtime" when they become relevant. The first thing I tell the players is that this is a roleplaying game, and a game of imagination. If they can imagine their character doing something, then they can attempt to do it simply by stating what they want to do. Let "me", as the DM, worry about the mechanical "how-to". Then I give them a very quick rundown of their pregen sheet. I assume that a player that brings his own sheet filled out has the basic knowledge to find things on their sheet, but I ask them anyway. Show them ALL, generally how to read their character sheet. Show them the location of their defenses, their skills, their speed and initiative, and the color and frequency for their at-will, encounter, and daily powers. This whole introduction usually takes less than 2 minutes at the table. If we are using pregens I have already familiarized myself with that particular pregen. So for example if I provide a sheet with an avenger class, I should know about the oath, and how it works. But if I don't provide that as a sheet I don't need that. Over time I've become more and more acquainted with each class but I assume that is the same with all DMs. They start green, and over time grow more familiar with the classes. Just like the players. So when we start the game runs as it would normally run, I provide the situation, being the eyes, ears and general senses of the characters, and ask the players what they want to do. If there is an actual mechanical resolution to what the player wants to do, I adjudicate it and tell the player what he needs to do to attempt what he wants. I also tell him if what he is attempting is easy, average, or difficult. Though I don't give them actual target numbers. I'm giving the player the amount of information that his character would have to make an "informed" decision. If they are using skills I explain the basic d20 mechanic of roll+mod. When it comes to combat I'll set up the situation and then call for initiative. I'll explain that they roll a d20, add the initiative modifier, and that is their initiative. Everyone acts in that order. I gather initiative, and I usually ask which character they are using and note it so that I have it in front of me for reference. We start combat. Got to the highest initiative, ask the player what he would want to do and which of the pregens he is using if I didn't ask this before. At that time I explain to ALL the players that during a combat they have a "standard, move, minor" + an action point and explain how that works. Since I'm already familiar with the pregens I let him know what possible actions would be beneficial to him "tactically". If it's a character that is not a pregen I usually know by their class what they can possibly do at 1st level, if not it take 10 seconds for me to look at their powers and determine what would be workable for their role in the current situation. The player decides what to do, I adjudicate, he rolls, and we move on. If there are environmental things that they could use, braziers, etc. I show it to them and describe them. When it's the monsters turn I look at their abilities, and tactics if noted on the encounter. Select what to do, roll, hit or miss, and move on. If there are environmental things that I mentioned that both players and monsters can use I show the players by using it, if possible. As combat advantage becomes available, I explain it, specially to a rogue, or thief; a quarry the same way, a curse is no different, a mark in the same manner, etc. Only make mechanics relevant when they're actually relevant. The point is that it's easier to explain to the entire table how combat works by only concentrating on the relevant pieces for each character at each slice of time. As combat progresses, I have to do that less, and less as the players get accustomed to their characters. This takes no more time than what it takes for me to look at the monster attacks and decide what to use. After one or two turns the players have gotten the hang, and usually one or two will start helping the others. The game doesn't come to a screeching halt, because unlike a player I don't have to have analysis paralysis. I recommend an option, let the player decide, and move on. I explain the options as they become relevant. If a player is playing a thief, I explain to him how to gain combat advantage, but at the same time I'm explaining it to all players. If I see someone seriously hurt, I remind the leaders of things they can do. When a power is used that has ongoing damage, or a condition I explain it at that time, and note it on the initiative sheet. When a player's initiative comes up I remind him of the damage, it's already on my sheet, and as he finishes his turn I have him make the save if it's required. My role as DM is to teach them and make it easy for them to decide. Not to give them so much information that they haven't got a clue of what would be beneficial. When someone reads this they might think that this is an overwhelming amount of work. The truth is that it is so simple that it's almost trivial. I hope that example makes sense, and answers your question. [/QUOTE]
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