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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8940321" data-attributes="member: 6877472">The real problem is that, especially in older editions, player knowledge was character knowledge.  You couldn't survive a world with trolls, werewolves, vampires, mimics, lurkers, wolves in sheep's clothing, nymphs, succubi, hags, dopplegangers (and so much more!) without knowing how to actually fight such things (or knowing to avoid them!).Now as skills to give the players access to knowledge became more prevalent, leaving these things up to a die roll, it became easier to separate player and character knowledge, and some things, like trolls, were clearly common enough knowledge that a DC 10 or less would suffice, putting such tidbits in the reach of everyone.But I started seeing a lot of pushback from older DM's who felt it wasn't right that players could roll a die and not fall for a monster's big trick.  They really wanted that "gotcha!" moment, without realizing that it was the gaming equivalent of a jump scare.  No one is impressed by taking a bunch of damage because their character isn't allowed to be wary of a stone statue, or that the rock they decided to climb was really some kind of elemental.And sure enough, there are no standard monster knowledge rules in 5e core.  It's all up to the DM.  Heck even identifying a spell requires a check (and a subsystem that makes counterspell completely pointless, lol).When I run, I give my players every opportunity to know what they are up against, so that they can make actual strategic decisions.  Some might say that takes the surprise and wonder out of the game, but what's the tradeoff?  Players feeling like morons because they won initiative and were the first to be embarrassed by finding out what a monster can do the hard way?"Oh but it's a learning experience, then they know not to do that again."  Yeah, except you're probably not going to use a Mimic again once they know to be wary of one.  Or keep using Trolls once the party arms themselves with oil flasks.  Plus, if the character dies "finding out this information", that doesn't help their next character much, does it?That having been said, I do have a limit to how much metagaming I will tolerate.  If you make actions based on information you have zero way of knowing, then I'll drop the hammer on you. Like say, something you'd only find out from reading the adventure.  But knowing who the heck Vecna is, and not wanting to mess with a mummified hand you trip over?  That's fine by me (though I'm sure a lot of people would be tempted even if they DO know!).As an aside, I wish I had players invested in the lore; I'm a huge lore junkie, so if I'm playing a Forgotten Realms adventure and someone randomly mentions Lantan or The Hand of Vaprak, it's a lot of fun for me.  Even more so when I can actually amaze the other players with these tidbits.Sadly, my players are usually clueless about such things.</blockquote>

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