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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ulorian - Agent of Chaos" data-source="post: 4886037" data-attributes="member: 16668">I knew I forgot to mention something! I actually use 1/3 xp, but 1/2 could work too. As a side note, I find that minions under RAW are not worth 1/4 xp, but closer to 1/6 xp or even 1/8 xp.Interesting idea to have these minion rules co-exist with the RAW minion rules. I was using my rules as a replacement, but I'll give this some thought. By combining the two, you could have combats with really large numbers of challenging foes without overwhelming the party.Do my minion rules speed up bookkeeping? Absolutely not. These minions are roughly as much work to manage as a standard monster: the 'death' saving throws are more dice rolls than a standard monster requires, but that's balanced by the fact that they die more quickly. Although faster bookkeeping was one design goal, the 4E design team's overarching paradigm was to create a type of monster with attacks/defenses matched to a party's level that could be included in an encounter in large numbers, and my rules achieve this.Although a great concept, the RAW minion rules just don't work in my opinion. I DMed a party for 8 months using the RAW rules, and in every combat involving minions, things unfolded the same way: 1) Party sees an encounter with more than 5 or 6 opponents. "Oho! Minions!" The dragonborn Warlord breaks out his breath weapon while the Swordmage readies his Flame Cyclone and the two Rangers prep Twin Strike.2) After 2 rounds, the minions are generally gone, leaving the non-minion foes in the encounter outnumbered and ripe for the picking.Result: an unsatisfying combat whose challenge level is far less than the total xp it yields.The main problems with RAW minions:1) Ineffective. RAW minions deal low damage when compared to standard monsters of their level, with generally no rider effects, which standard monsters often/usually have. As a result, even large groups of minions don't tax a party's resources.* Note: MM2 addresses this: minion damage is higher and minions often have secondary effects for their attacks.2) One hit and die. This promotes metagame thinking in the PCs. "This monster went down in one hit! I can thus rely on all monsters that look like this one to also go down in one hit! Break out the area attacks!"A corollary of 'one hit and die' is that area attacks (or any attack that targets multiple opponents) are far too effective at handling minions.If minions are close together, they might as well not have been present in the encounter (i.e. one or two attacks will clear them from the board). This forces the DM to metagame when setting up the encounter by having the minions attack in waves, from different parts of the map, by having some use ranged attacks, etc. so that the PCs have to use more attacks to tag them all.</blockquote>

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