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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nyaricus" data-source="post: 4284249" data-attributes="member: 35678">So, I played my first game of 4E this past Sunday, and in building my character and looking over the new shiny system, I really enjoy how much 4E's design has been focused on how skills are what a character can do. In my previous, albeit short-lived 'New Skill List Thread' about a month or two back, one of those who responded said that, and in reading the 4E rules, it finally drove home for me. I then tonight went full-force into the 3E skill list, paring-down, cutting out, and reorganizing all sorts of lovely bits and pieces. What follows is the lovechild of a night of frenzied, inspired work. I appreciate any and all feedback!MY NEW SKILL LIST:Acrobatics (DEX)Athletics (STR)Bluff (CHA)Concentration (CON)Diplomacy (CHA)Handle Animal (CHA sometimes DEX)Intimidate (CHA)Knowledge: Arcana (INT)Knowledge: History (INT)Knowledge: Local (CHA)Knowledge: Medicine (INT)Knowledge: Nature (INT or WIS)Knowledge: the Planes (INT)Knowledge: Psionics (INT)Knowledge: Religion (INT)Notice (WIS)Perform (CHA)Profession (INT or WIS)Sense Motive (WIS)Sleight of Hand (DEX)Sneak (DEX)Use Magic Item (INT or CHA)Use Mechanical Device (DEX or INT)Use Psionic Item (INT or CHA)Alternative look at it:STR: AthleticsDEX: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Sneak, Use Mechanical Device****CON: ConcentrationINT: Knowledge: Arcana, History, Medicine, Nature**, the Planes, Psionics, Religion, Profession**, Use Magic Item***. Use Mechanical Device****, Use Psionic Item***WIS: Notice, Knowledge: Nature, Profession**, Sense MotiveCHA: Bluff, Diplomacy, Handle Animal*, Intimidate, Knowledge: Local, Perform, Use Magic Item***, Use Psionic Item***.*Handle Animal has certains uses for which DEX may be used.** For Knowledge: Nature and Profession you may use your WIS or INT mod which ever is higher.*** For Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device you may use your INT or CHA mod, whichever is higher.**** For Use Mechanical Device, you may use your DEX or INT mod, whichever is higher---Here are the fine details of the skill list:Acrobatics (DEX)Is for all Balance, Escape Artist and Tumble checksAthletics (STR) Is for all Climb, Jump and Swim checks.Bluff (CHA)Is for all uses of Bluff and Diguise.Concentration (CON)Is for all Autohypnosis and Concentration checks.Diplomacy (CHA)Is the same.Handle Animal (CHA or sometimes DEX)Is for all Handle Animal and Ride checks. For uses of Handle Animal that used to be ride skill, use you DEX modifier on checks, except for Leap, Spur Mount, and Control Mount in Battle checks - those use CHA.Intimidate (CHA)Is the same.Knowledge: Arcana (INT)This skill takes over all Knowledge: Arcana checks and Spellcraft checks. It also pertains to Knowledge checks for Constructs, Dragons, Elementals, Magical Beasts and Oozes.Knowledge: History (INT)Knowledge: Local (CHA)Is for all Gather Information and Knowledge: Local checks.Knowledge: Medicine (INT)Is for all Heal checks, for which I've swapped out D20 Modern's Treat Injury skill.Knowledge: Nature (INT or WIS)Is for all Knowledge: Nature and Survival checks as well as checks for Animals, Giants, Fey, Monstrous Humanoids, Plants and Vermin.Knowledge: the Planes (INT) Is for all Knowledge: the Planes checks, as well as for Survival checks when on a different plane, as well as checks for Aberrations, Elementals and Outsiders.Knowledge: PsionicsIs for all Knowledge: Psionics and Psycraft checks. It’s also for creatures of the Aberrations, Constructs, and Psionic creatures and races.Knowledge: Religion (INT)Is for Knowledge: Religion checks as well as for checsk for Outsiders with an Alignment subtype and the Undead.Notice (WIS) This takes over all Spot, Listen and Search checks.Perform (CHA)Is the same, save for there is no distinction between what sort of performance type you choose – that is simply fluff/flavour.Profession (WIS)Is for all Craft and Profession checks.Sense Motive (WIS)Is the same.Sleight of Hand (DEX)Is for all Sleight of Hand and Use Rope checks.Sneak (DEX)Is for all Hide and Move Silently checksUse Magic Item (INT or CHA)Is the same (slight name change)Use Mechanical Device (DEX or INT)Is for all Disable Device and Open Lock checks.Use Psionic Item (INT or CHA)Is the same (slight name change)---Now with that done, some re-balancing of classes needs to be done, so here we go:Here's a little calculation I did. The following assumes you count Knowledge as 10 seperate skills, Perform as 9 separate skills, and count Profession and Craft as one skill each (since both are infinite in scope, this makes things easier if you just take that ratio down to 1. Makes sense? I hope so!)Now, since 53 skils = 100%, and if you times 53 by 1.88 you get (essentually) 100%, I then multiplied all of the base classes skills by 1.88, to get the rough percent of skills they should have.Bbn gets 9/53 possible skills. 9x1.88 = about 17%Brd gets 34/53 possible skills. 34x1.88 = about 64%Clr gets 10/53 possible skills. 10x1.88 = about 19%Drd gets 13/53 possible skills. 13x1.88 = about 25%Ftr gets 7/53 possible skills. 7x1.88 = about 14%Pal gets 10/53 possible skills. 10x1.88 = about 19%Mnk gets 26/53 possible skills. 26x1.88 = about 49%Rgr gets 19/53 possible skills. 19 x1.88 = about 36%Rog gets 37/53 possible skills. 37x1.88 = about 70%Sor gets 6/53 possible skills. 6 x1.88 = about 11%Wiz gets 15/53 possible skills. 15 x1.88  = about 28%To group them:Lower Skills (0-24%): Barbarian (17%), Cleric (19%), Fighter (14%), Paladin (19%), Sorcerer (11%)Medium Skills (25-49%): Druid (25%), Monk (49%), Ranger (36%), Wizard (28%)Higher Skills (50%+): Bard (64%), Rogue (70%) [Monk is close]But, that also isn’t counting their skills per level. Therefore:Bbn .17x4 = .68Brd .64x6 = 3.84Clr .19x2 = .38Drd .25x4 =1.00Ftr .14x2 = .28Pal .19x2 = .38Mnk .49x4 = 1.96Rgr .36x6 = 2.16Rog .7x8 = 5.6Sor .11x2 = .22Wiz .28x2 = .56We can now see just how good the classes are power-wise, in regards to skills. We can also see that Fighters and Sorcerers (big surprize) got the major shaft, skills-wise. Let’s see what we can do about this then, with my new skill list...Barbarians get: Athletics, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Nature, Notice, Profession.Bards get Acrobatics, Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge (all skills; taken individually), Notice, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Sneak, Use Magic ItemClerics get Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge: History, Medicine, the Planes, Religion, Profession, Sense MotiveDruids get Athletics, Concentration, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Knowledge: Arcana, History, Medicine, Nature, Religion, Notice, Profession, Sense Motive.Fighters get Acrobatics, Athletics, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge: Local, Medicine, Profession,Monks get Acrobatics, Athletics, Concentration, Knowledge: History, Medicine, Religion, Notice, Profession, Sense Motive, Sneak.Paladins get Athletics, Concentration, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Knowledge: History, Medicine, Religion, Profession, Sense Motive.Rangers get Acrobatics, Athletics, Concentration, Handle Animal, Knowledge: History, Medicine, Nature, Religion, Notice, Profession, Sneak.Rogues get Acrobatics, Athletics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge: Local, Notice, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Sneak, Use Magic Item, Use Mechanical Device, Use Psionic Item.Sorcerers get Concentration, Knowledge: Arcana, the Planes, Profession, Sense Motive, Use Magic Item and one of the following: Bluff, Diplomacy or Intimidate.Wizards get Concentration, Knowledge (all skills; taken individually), Profession, Use Magic Item.-------------I’ll have to calculate the rest of this out tomorrow, including skill points per class! It's rather early here.... lol.Cheers,--N</blockquote>

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