My OD&D 4th Edition Project

[Irda Ranger]

Hey all,

So, I've heard quite a few times now that 4E reminds folks of BECMI. I found this interesting, so I read through Philotomy's OD&D Musings, Mythmere's OD&D Primer, and bought the Rules Cyclopedia. Shortly, I can see what you mean.

I would like to stick with 4E, because I think it does improve many things over previous editions. In particular, I am happy to move away from the Vancian casting system and the lop-sided class balances at various levels. That being said, I would like to know what the community's suggestions would be for good house rules to encourage the OD&D feel. Call them "The Unofficial Houses Rules of Necromancer Games", if you will.

So, suggestions?

I think it would be helpful to also express a range, if you will, of house rules from "Old School Lite" to "Hard Core OD&D." I will provide the first example:

Old School Lite: Re-arrange the classes into "Profession", rather than "Power Source", so the Martial Classes are now all "Fighting Men" and the Arcane Classes are "Magic-Users."
Hard Core OD&D: Just three classes: Fighter, Cleric and Wizard.

Old School Lite: Five Alignments: Good, Evil, Chaotic, Lawful, Neutral
Hard Core OD&D: Three alignments: Chaotic, Neutral, Lawful

I don't want to make too many suggestions though because I have never actually had the pleasure of playing 1E or OD&D. I came into the hobby just as AD&D 2E came out and that's still the system I clocked the most time under. I will leave further suggestions (and corrections, if necessary) to those with real experience here.

Thank you all for your feedback. I hope that if the response here is sufficient I will codify and post this to my personal site so that it doesn't get lost to page 32 of the boards.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Interesting idea... I never felt compelled to look at the "old" editions, but I like to hear about their perks. So, I can't help you, but I will probably read the answers with interest.

 

[Khuxan]

Weirdly enough, I was planning today to page through my OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, BFRPG and Swords & Wizardry pdfs (the closest I've come to older editions of D&D - I started with 3.0) and look at how to modify 4E to be more old-school.

I like the idea of reducing it to three alignments.

There was a thread here which wondered if losing a daily and receiving an encounter power was balanced - the conclusion being it was. In that case, "magic users" could only acquire daily powers (but acquire twice as many) and "fighting men" could only acquire encounter powers (but acquire twice as many). Clerics could acquire both.

Having weapons do damage (and have certain properties) based on your class, not the weapon makes sense because in OD&D all weapons did the same damage. Class-based damage would keep balance but reflect this sensibility.

 

[tankschmidt]

I'm a big fan of OD&D (and when I say OD&D I mean the 1974 boxed set), but it's hard to find people who are willing to play anything but the newest editions. So I've been compiling some house rules myself to run OD&D adventures with players who are more interested in a 4E game. My ultimate goal is to be able to whip out an adventure from the newest issue of the OD&D fanzine Fight On! (http://www.fightonmagazine.com). The biggest hurdle I'm seeing is redoing the 4E monsters and equating their level according to their OD&D hit dice. I've done a few so far. Here's a look at the reduced stat block:

Bandit Veteran Level 1 Soldier EXP: 20
HP 17 Morale 7 (9 if elite is present)
AC 17 Fort 14, Ref 13, Will 13 Speed 6
Long sword (at will, basic attack, std action) +8 vs AC, 4-13 damage
Low Blow (encounter, std. action) +8 vs AC, 5-23 damage, target dazed until end of Bandit Veteran’s next turn.
Combat advantage: bandits deal an extra 1-6 damage on melee and ranged attacks against any target they have combat advantage against.
AL Neutral or Chaotic Languages Common
Equipment: Long sword, Chain Mail

It's still pretty chunky for my tastes, but it's getting there. Here are some of the house rules I've come up with to this point:

Character Generation:
1. Instead of adding your constitution score to your starting hit points, add your constitution modifier. Monster hit points are reduced by constitution score.
2. There are only three alignments: Law, Neutrality, and Chaos. Paladins must be lawful. Warlocks may not be lawful.
3. There are no skills or skill challenges. Non-combat challenges are resolved by considering role playing, class roles, or character backgrounds. All skill training prerequisites are automatically fulfilled.
4. Add the following items to the equipment table: Belladonna, Chicken, Garlic, Hammer, Holy Water, Iron Spike, Mirror, Oil, 10' Pole, small/large Sack, Wolfsbane

Races:
1. The wood elf ability Group Awareness has no effect.

Classes:
1. The 6th level cleric utility power Holy Lantern increases the chance of finding secret doors, listening at doors, and locating invisible creatures by one pip for you and all allies within 5".
2. The 6th level thief utility power Chameleon ... (haven't figured this one out yet)
3. The 6th level magic-user utility power Disguise Self cannot be seen through with an insight check but may require some role-playing to keep up.

Feats:
1. The Alertness feat grants +1 to initiative instead of +2 to perception.
2. The Dragonborn Senses feat allows secret doors to be found on a roll of 1-2 on 1d6 in addition to granting low-light vision.
3. The Group Insight feat grants you a +1 to initiative instead of granting your allies a +1 to insight checks.

Exploration
1. Secret doors can be located on a roll of 1 on 1d6, 1-4 for wood elves and high elves. Both varieties of elves have a 1-2 chance of noticing a secret door if they pass by one.
2. A dragonborn, human, or tiefling character can listen through doors on a roll of 1 on 1d6. A dwarf, high elf, wood elf, or hobbit can listen on a roll of 1-2 on 1d6.
3. An invisible creature's square can be located on a roll of 1-2 on 1d6. If the creature is a thief or ranger or is suitably quiet, they are only located on a roll of 1.

Combat
1. The DM may allow creative combat maneuvers that are roughly as strong as at will powers.
2. NPCs and Monsters are subject to 2d6 morale checks.
3. If surprise is deemed possible, one or both sides of combat are surprised on a roll of 1-2 on 1d6. Rangers, Thieves, and some monsters are only surprised on a roll of 1. Blind or deaf characters are surprised on a roll of 1-4.
4. Initiative is rolled as normal, but all monsters will act on the same initiative count, as determined by an average modifier. After the monsters have gone, individual initiative count will not be tracked, and play will alternate between party and monsters.
5. The party may choose to flee if combat is not going well. Monsters will pursue in a straight line if the party is within 20". If a corner is turned, a door is passed through, or stairs are taken, the monsters will only pursue on a roll of 1-2 on a d6. They will only pursue on a roll of 1 if a secret door is passed through. Burning oil may deter pursuit. Dropping food or treasure will likely distract non-intelligent or intelligent pursuers accordingly. For evasion in the wilderness, see U&WA.

Treasure and Magical Items
1. Every gold piece of treasure recovered also grants 1 experience point to the party. Experience from combat will be reduced by a factor of five.
2. Ignore the rule that dictates how much treasure a level X character should be allowed to have.
3. With very few exceptions, magical items cannot be purchased.
4. There is no auto-identification of magical items during a short rest. Identify items via experimentation, research, or paying an expert.
5. Magical items may vary substantially from the powers listed in the PHB, at times with flagrant disregard for 4E's policy of not modifying ability scores. The DM will also add in cursed items as he sees fit.
6. Each magical item daily power can be used once per day, but there is no limit to the total number of daily powers that can be used.

Rituals
1. The level 3 Detect Secret Doors ritual allows secret doors to be found on a roll of 1-5 on 1d6.
2. The level 6 Discern Lies ritual allows the caster to recognize automatically any untruths spoken.
3. While performing the level 12 Hallucinatory Creature ritual, the caster rolls int vs. will to be used when a character physically interacts with the illusion. On subsequent touches, the interacting character receives a cumulative +1 bonus to his will defensive.
4. While performing the level 5 Hallucinatory Item ritual, the caster rolls int vs. will to be used when a character physically interacts with the illusion. On subsequent touches, the interacting character receives a cumulative +1 bonus to his will defensive.

The major stumbling block I am having is that I'd rather just play OD&D than have to wrestle with all this nonsense.

 

[tankschmidt]

Let me just clarify one point from that huge post. For magical items, I intend on using the descriptions straight out of the 3LB + Supplement I or the 1st edition DMG. For example, Gauntlets of Ogre Power will give the wearer an 18 strength, rather than whatever sissy power they have in 4E. I think that sort of randomness is part of the fun of D&D. Along those lines, I'd also suggest generating ability scores by rolling 3d6 in order, but I think I'd have a riot on my hands.

 

[Irda Ranger]

The major stumbling block I am having is that I'd rather just play OD&D than have to wrestle with all this nonsense.

I think that's what you should do too. Your other stumbling block appears to be that you don't like the 3E/4E core mechanic of d20. I think d20 is a pretty good method for resolving many actions within the game. I also don't want to have to rewrite the Monster Manual or rederive a new method for balancing encounters.

A lot of your suggestions also change the balance between the classes or races; balance that the Wizards design team spent a lot of time working on. I wasn't planning on taking away racial abilities without giving something back, or changing how HP are calculated.

You've got some good suggestions though. I think the best are as follows:
Morale Rules. I think 3E/4E have lost the sense that you're in a fantasy world, and have become too much like Diablo. Rules that make monsters believable agents, acting on their own motives, help with the feeling of "they're just as real as my PC is."

Less Monster XP, More Treasure XP I think Treasure XP should be the default Quest XP when there isn't a more explicit Quest (like rescuing hostages or recovering the lost crown of Tiki-Miki). Monsters are obstacles to be overcome, but you can do that in many ways (including avoidance). This also reduces the feeling of "I have to 'Clear the level' to move on."

DM fiat creative combat maneuvers. I think some ad-hoc crazy crap is one of the best things about OD&D, and bringing that back (while balancing it with at-will powers) is a great idea. I think the at-wills and combat maneuvers (like charge) should be considered "examples" rather than the defined limit of what you can do.

 

[crash_beedo]

I think OD&D is more about the tone of the game than the actual rules...

First off, OD&D wasn't simulationist like 3E, so the first part of why 4E harkens back to O&D is because it puts the game elements front and center.

OD&D also didn't focus on meta-plots and world-spanning story arcs; a typical story might be there is an old dungeon outside of town with monsters and loot, and that was good enough for motivation. The rest would play out from there (ie, we explore dungeons, not characters). Many times these dungeons became 'mega-dungeons' like Castle Greyhawk or the Temple of Elemental Evil, and the little villages or towns in the area slowly got progressively elaborated over time. The Points of Light conceipt of 4E (start with a simple local setting and adventure) is very much in-line with this philosophy of the micro-setting.

One area where I see them diverge is in instant-death situations and the arbitrary DM approach of OD&D and 1E. Old school had a lot of save-or-die situations, and there weren't (great) rules in place for player actions and non-combat skills. 4E has changed a lot of that with the skill system and removal of instant kill effects. But you can still challenge player's directly in the old-school way with puzzles, riddles, etc - the 4E DMG has good ideas there.

Anyway - that's my take - rather than focus on house rules that change 4E, I'd make an adventure and setting that captures the old-school feel and focus the game on an old-school dungeon crawl. Dragonsfoot and Knights & Knaves have plenty of material on mega-dungeons and returning to OD&D's 1970's roots.

 

[PeelSeel2]

Go back to old school hit points for monster and characters. 1d6 per level. Or if that is too hard go to 8 hp per level.