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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Agemegos" data-source="post: 1568677" data-attributes="member: 18377">No. I don't insist on formal courtroom action, but I do think that where possible there should be some sort of open demonstration of justice, some precautions taken and demonstrated to guard against hasty misjudgements. An immediate execution without considering the possibility of defence, and without demonstrating a due process of some sort, is not in my opinion Lawful (whatever the law might say).In my book too. An urgent necessity to do something effective and decisive. But not necessarily to use lethal force. If there were something non-lethal and equally effective that would save the girl, then the use of lethal force is uncalled-for.In this case I think that it would probably have been enough for the paladin to make his presence known, and that a non-lethal attack would have been every bit as effective as a lethal one. If the rapist was such as to remain active through a subdual attack he would certainly have survived any lethal attack. Ie., if he had been a high-level rogue or monk the lethal attack would not have put him down, and if he wasn't then the subdual one would have. So the lethal attack did not actually avoid the dangers of the cryptic monk or the chimerical dagger.I must say that if any of my characters had been there he would have been convinced that the scene was a trap or some sort of staged set-up. A real rapist would certainly have closed the door. The fact that he left the door open was a clear indication that he was trying to make sure this incident was seen. An obvious trap.We don't play classic dungeon crawls. And as it happpens, I don't think anyone has ever played a paladin in any of the few games of D&D I have run. I mostly use other games systems.My paladin character, Edmund "Bluelights" Edwinson, has had mixed travelling. Sometimes he has done it rough, or at least got into grave danger, by always trying to make peace if there seems to be any chance of it succeeding. On other occasions he has managed to defuse or avoid fights, make friends out of enemies, and so forth. It seems to balance out.But on the whole, a dungeon crawl against implacable monsters is a different case. That is war, not policing. Killing an enemy in open combat does not undermine the lawfulness of one's community the way summarily executing a neighbour in backroom does. When last we left Edmund Edwinson the Scots had invaded Cumbria, and his lord was off to war as a vassal of the king of England. Edmund was about to be forced by his duty to kill fellow-Christians in what he thought a futile war. He didn't feel happy about it, but he was going to do his duty. Obviously, Edmund would not have arrested and tried a Scottish soldier in battle. Lawfulness doesn't require that.The paladins in my campaigns have always been NPCs, and in general it has been their scrupulous fair play that has allowed the PCs to survive against them. (My last campaign was much more Law-vs.-Chaos than Good-vs.-Evil.)As for Edmund Edwinson, the only 'other races' he has come across have been Spaniards, Moors, Jews, French, and Normans. He has found good and bad among all of them, as among his fellow Northumbrians. He married a Jewess, he is one of the retainers of a Norman lord.Never mind. It is very hard to keep different posters straight. And in these days where everyone is trained to put forward every argument that tends to advance the conclusion one favours it must be hard to understand somebody arguing vigorously that Vindicator's character's action was wrong if that person does not believe that he ought to be stripped of his paladinhood.</blockquote>

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