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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Agemegos" data-source="post: 1571636" data-attributes="member: 18377">I agree that that is a breach of the paladin's code (though I note that many people with more modern sensibilities do not). But a paladin doesn't lose his or her powers for just any breach of the code. According to the PHB he only loses them (1) for a willing evil act, (2) associating with evil characters, (3) changing alignment away from Lawful Good, (4) or a gross breach of the paladin's code.1) I do not believe that by D&D standards is is evil to kill a person whom you honestly believe to be evil. And if you honestly believe that you are doing so to prevent a heinous crime I think that by D&D standards the act is Good. And if you turn out to be right in both beliefs you are safe as houses. Backstabbing is not itself Evil by the definitions in the PHB.2) Associating with evil charcters simply doesn't come into it.3) Alignment ought not to be judged on a single act, especially one performed under emotiional stress, but only on a consistent or at least general tendency of behaviour.4) I do think that killing an unarmed man by stabbing him in the back without warning is dishonourable, and that killing a suspect out of hand without considering the possibility of a defence is disrespectful to authority and so forth. A lot of people have said that they disagree. But I agree that this act was a breach of the Code. Even so, the question remains whether it was a gross one. 'Gross' is not specifically defined for this purpose, and so we all have to draw the line where we see fit. Very likely our opinions will differ. I take into account that it is a grim and gritty campaign, and I think of some of the things that the real Templars and Teutonic knights and other crusaders actually did: herded all the Jews in a city into their synagoge, barricaded the doors, stacked fuel around it, and set it on fire; massacred the whole population of a city after it had surrendered on the grounds the "God will know his own"; tried to cheat a widow out of her house, and when she resisted, cut her fingers off; burst into a cathedral during a pontifical mass, and shot arrows into the altar to intimidte the bishop into  giving their order property; fought with one another in the streets over the right to strip the corpses of pilgrims who had died; deposed a Christian king and installed a puppet to get access to more property. In a grim and gritty campaign there will be people doing this sort of thing. If I call it 'gross' to kill a red-handed rapist in a moment of rage I am soon going to run out of superlatives.Your mileage may vary.</blockquote>

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